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chestnut im not bitching at you, your dads happy and thats all that matters. If you had wanted the tom could you have not left your dad were they switched tracks and got the dogs and started the tom track again, i realize from what you say your dad can probably only travel so much. You say they switched mid race so could of had your dad hold up there knowing you were on a different track. Again just asking.

You just have to love the hound hunting community. A guy gets his dad a lion and people demonize him because some wouldn’t have shot it. It is hailed as a “bad decision” and there are multiple people trying to tell him how he should have done differently and gotten him a tom. He hunted hard and came up with what he did. His dad barely made it to the tree and barely made it back to the truck. His dad was stoked with his prize, the lion, whose life will be celebrated with a life-sized mount put on display to remember a great hunt with his son. I would have loved to have been there to see his dad’s face after the grueling walk to the tree with one leg when he finally got his eyes on his trophy. Ian should be proud and so should his dad.

I also find it comical that people think they can own public land, or the animals that inhabit it. And yes, some hound hunters are territorial, but it is public land. Key work: public. Ian hunted his butt off trying to find a lion. He started with the stuff close to his house and worked outward. There are guys out there that think they own entire drainages, which is crap. If you want a certain canyon or area to be “yours” for a day, then you need to beat everybody else who wants to cut it that day. And quite honestly, I don’t know many people that beat Ian in the morning because he hunts pretty dang hard.

It is funny to me that Ian, of all houndsmen, is being picked on. He’s has been a part of only two lion kills. This season, he has treed and released mature toms on a regular, almost weekly basis. He would have loved to have gotten his dad a tom, but when he was there they didn’t cooperate. The hound hunting community needs to be more supportive of other hunters and their accomplishments. If you think that there is absolutely no exception to the male only rule, then you should spend your time trying to influence legislators to get the law changed, not trying to ostracize every hunter who legally harvests.

And Lion King, I am curious: isn’t the public land that Ian got his lion in near the private that your group hunts where the land owner requires you to shoot EVERY lion that is treed and follows you to the tree to make sure you do it? Just wondering…

B/T wrote:chestnut im not bitching at you, your dads happy and thats all that matters. If you had wanted the tom could you have not left your dad were they switched tracks and got the dogs and started the tom track again, i realize from what you say your dad can probably only travel so much. You say they switched mid race so could of had your dad hold up there knowing you were on a different track. Again just asking.

I would have loved to get the tom! I got a "tip" the tom was there, that's how I decided where to go. The tom was two days old. They worked the track for a few hours. Where they treed, there wasn't good road access. I didn't know till I got to the tree they had switched. It was late enough in the day, my dad was already headed in and it was his last day hunting and his mobility is VERY limited due to his leg and the steep terrain. It took him hours to get in and hours to get out. I didn't have time to go gather dogs and try to sort out through the mess of deer and dog tracks in that canyon.

That's what I am talking about, no one was there but me and no one knows what happend but me. I'm not ashamed or apologetic for the one female I will ever let someone kill.

It's funny, Lionking (still would like a name buddy so I know who all this inaccurate critisism comes from) proved exactly my point. Oh and any friend of mine, would have been happy that my father got his first cat. No questions asked.

imchestnut wrote:

B/T wrote:chestnut im not bitching at you, your dads happy and thats all that matters. If you had wanted the tom could you have not left your dad were they switched tracks and got the dogs and started the tom track again, i realize from what you say your dad can probably only travel so much. You say they switched mid race so could of had your dad hold up there knowing you were on a different track. Again just asking.

I would have loved the tom to get! The tom was two days old. They worked the track for a few hours. Where they treed, there wasn't good road access. I didn't know till I got to the tree they had switched. It was late enough in the day, my dad was already headed in and it was his last day hunting and his mobility is VERY limited due to his leg and the steep terrain. It took him hours to get in and hours to get out. I didn't have time to go gather dogs and try to sort out through the mess of deer and dog tracks in that canyon.

That's what I am talking about, no one was there but me and no one knows what happend but me. I'm not ashamed or apologetic for the one female I will ever let someone kill.

It's funny, Lionking (still would like a name buddy so I know who all this inaccurate critisism comes from) proved exactly my point. Oh and any friend of mine, would have been happy that my father got his first cat. No questions asked.

Thanks chestnut have had switches happen a couple times as well. Have a buddy whos nephew is a double leg ampute as well and if he ever wanted to go would be taking him out as well.
your dad well have many found memories looking at his mount.

Lion King,

Hey buddy, still waitin’ for a response. I see you have just enough courage to create a new account on here, slander me, and then fade away…pretty big man. I can see you logged on last night too and probably saw this post. And who is this "we" you are reffering too?

Gotta love a site where you can slander people anonymously about things they didn’t (or even did) do. I posted my name and number because I don’t believe in hiding behind some fake name and then lecturing someone on morals. The irony is unbelievable…If you’re going to lecture about morals, you really should man up to what you say (especially when you slander someone) and at least know the story. But you won’t. Practice what you preach.

Ian Chestnut
(208)313-8699

And PS. I hunted one canyon away from where this female lion was killed last year on March 10th, 2012 (I keep a log of every day that I hunt including where it was and looked it up last night). No one showed me anything. I was alone.

Ian do me a big favor. Shake your dads hand give him a hug, And tell him WELL DONE.
I to have hunted with a very good hunting partner who has lost a leg. To get this done on shoeshoes is awsome. Do not let one man tarnish the memory.

Oldmanindeepsnow wrote:Ian do me a big favor. Shake your dads hand give him a hug, And tell him WELL DONE.
I to have hunted with a very good hunting partner who has lost a leg. To get this done on shoeshoes is awsome. Do not let one man tarnish the memory.

Thanks buddy! I don't think people realize how difficult it is to walk in steep terrain or in snowshoes with those prosthetics. He was really happy and I was prouder than any animal I have ever taken.

Ian,

I certainly don't have a problem with your hunt and I am very happy you and your Dad have this memory to share. that's great!

My initial start to this post was nothing along those lines it had to do with the type of people that run a female with kittens and when they can't even catch the female they just go ahead and smoke both of the kittens. Now if you really want to hear more to that story hold onto your seat.

This female kept coming back looking for her kittens that were hauled off the mountain in a pickup. So the mighty hunters kept going back day after day until they hit her fresh enough to actually run her up a tree and they blasted her too. Now isn't that sweet?

Wow thats terrible in so many ways. I won't even turn out on a female that has kittens with it. I know some people who do and end up stretching the kittens. To me, its not worth the risk for one stupid lion race. I know some other people do it and end up with dead ones more than once.

Great post there is a lot of great thoughts here. It really is a problem.

People will never be held accountable hiding behing their computer. But Mike that is a very well written statement.
I was talking to my taxidermist this week and he commented on a local outfitter that also outfits in Alberta that killed a lion so small that he has no clue on how to mount it for the client. They don't make a mold small enough. This makes me sick!!
Until Outfitters have to buy their hunting consessions in many of the western states,like we do in BC, competition for every lion will continue. The way thing are ran in places like Utah makes me glad i live where I live!

This is a great post and I would like to jump in a bit. I hunted in Washington State around the Mt. St. Helens area, about 30 years ago. I had no one show me anything about hunting with hounds so at the beginning I spent a lot of my time hunting dogs instead of game. But, my love for hunting with hounds grew and that covered the fact that I was lousy at it and had no idea what I was doing. I just loved hearing my hounds even if it was on a deer. Back in those old school days, you had to have great tree dogs because you never knew how long it would take to get to the tree(no electronics in those days). It could be the next day before you found them. I knew early I didn't need to kill everything to enjoy. One day I about got into a fight with a guy. We were running a bear and again we were trying to find the dogs. This person (I am not going to call a hunter) found them and came out of the woods carrying two cubs by the scruff of their necks. I never hunted with him again. However, I began to learn that there were two types of hound hunters. One hunts with his dogs for the love of the sport, the love of watching dogs work andthe feeling of accomplishment of building a pack of dogs. Then there are other that use hounds for a means to kill so he can "brag" and boost his poser manly self. But, I believe there will always be many different levels and abilities of people hunting with hounds. There is another post on this site talking about that and I don't want blend this post into that post. This is too good of a talk. But, for you guys that are prolific at hunting with hounds and have the resourse to hunt 4-6 days a week, can help others. I am now getting back into hunting with hounds. I have been on 3 treed lions this last month and a half. I watched these guys with these great dogs do their thing. Both of these guys are good men and great with their dogs. Here is the difference. From my emotion of the hunt to theirs was night and day. If I had a license and was by my self, I would have ignorantly killed two of the cats. Thanks God I was with good guys and showed me. I was so excited even at 53 years old that you would have thought I had just been out with my prom date. For those guys, it was another walk inthe park. What I am saying is, when you get a chance, take some of the newbies with you and teach them. I own a hunting outfit in Wyoming. Most guys we get out there and see a 20 inch mule deer walking away from us or a 11 inch antelope at the right position, we have to almost take the gun away so they don't shoot. For them it looks awesome but we know that isn't the right one. If I am in the woods and have a lion above me, I may not know if it is the wrong or right one. However, I have a responsiblitly as a hound hunter to learn what is the right one. If I am not going to respect that animal a year from now hanging on my wall, I sure do not want to shoot it now. And I do not need 10 lions hanging on my wall. Some of us just need taught. I am not saying this to get a hunt from anyone but this is a experience thing we are talking about. For guys that do have a mentor, remember to respect your mentor and the area he hunts!!! Nevertheless, this is a teaching and education thing for most guys. Just my thoughts and I hope it made some sense.

Hey Guys,
I know it doesn't matter to anyone but I had the privilege of having Ian's dad hunt with us at our outfit in Wyoming and I can tell you he is certainly one of the good guys. We made one stalk on an antelope that I felt bad about but there was no way he was going back off because of his leg. If he was sore on this cat hunt with Ian, I guarantee he had given all he had because he is that kind of guy. I also guarantee that he treasures that hunt with Ian not only for the memory with his son but the cat, for the great trophy I know he considers it to be.
Ian, tell your dad I said hi and tell him I would have loved to be there with you guys. Congradulations and good job to you. I wish I had mydad around to hunt with.

Hi All, I concede that not being an American certainly distances me from making any experienced comment but there are numerous similarities between all solitary felines e.g. Leopard, tiger, Jaguar, Mountain Lion.....and the effect of hunting/natural mortality of females and sub-adults is known to result in a population decline but there are exceptions: like post prime reproductive females. From about 12 years and older the reproductive success of a female drops dramatically but she will still maintain a territory and comsume its resources. So promoting a male only harvest legislation might just play into the hands of anti-hunting propogandists.
Infanticide also can result in population decline because of the effect to recruitment but this is better managed by quota restrictions.

As Mike said the window of opportunity to study the cat is invaluable in making a decision as whether to pull the trigger or not. I can only presume that like with Leopard, tooth wear and facial scarring are good indicators of age? Hunting over hounds is the most effective way of putting a hunter in this advantageous position - its only the diligence of the hunter that can be questionable.

Always enjoy reading the posts on this forum and still waiting for you to come stand under a treed Leopard Mike.

Gavin.

I see that day coming my friend. I just wonder if any of your clients have questioned you when you walk up to that tree with those silver spurs on. LOL!!


On your previous comment about feline age and fertility. Many experts agree that seldom does a cougar live over 12 years in the wild . So many factors to contend even leaving the one that started this topic out with alone. I did know one old female many years back that I was quite sure raised her last litter after she was 10 years old. she had been successful raising kittens in this same area for many years. When she was harvested the kittens she had were quite young. I had seen her in a tree that year myself and she was heavy with them at that time and she was very scarred up and her feet looked very broken down and almost arthritis. She left a pretty big track for a female but it exagerated much toed out most likley due to advanced age and the heavy load of the kittens in her. Lucky for the kittens they hung around for a few days after she was killed and then began to wander and ended up in a rancher's yard who called the Game and Fish and they were taken to the Zoo in Albuquerque where they lived a very long life one of them making it to near 20.