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Yeah I'm not gonna just shoot the dog. In regards to everyone else thanks for the advice talked to the breeder I bought her and her brother from and if the problem persists he will swap me dogs. As far as it being genetic that's not the issue her brother doesn't do that. I tool her out to day changed some stuff on the live training dummy and it turned out that I'm the one who was causing her to do that

nmbowhunter06 wrote:Yeah I'm not gonna just shoot the dog. In regards to everyone else thanks for the advice talked to the breeder I bought her and her brother from and if the problem persists he will swap me dogs. As far as it being genetic that's not the issue her brother doesn't do that. I tool her out to day changed some stuff on the live training dummy and it turned out that I'm the one who was causing her to do that

When I first replied to your post, did not realized the dog was being trained with drags. Also want to say I was not telling anyone to shot a young hound, most hounds make very good companion dogs, I have never believed in shooting dogs. I have over time noticed some line of hounds show the natural instinct to flip a track, and will say have seen other trainers break that habit, TO A POINT. However in the terrain hunters here have to deal with makes it very tough to catch a hound every time to correct any fault. Try laying the dog up for a couple weeks, give another chance & if things don/t change, look for a good home for the dog. Al

Al that wasn't aimed towards you at all the gentleman with the 22 mag comment. I got it all figured out today it was my fault she was doing it so we are good to go now

Advice may sometimes seem negative but is given to help.You have the choice to accept it as you see fit.Its your dog to do with as you choose.I hope she works out for you.

Would you mind giving a description of your training technique that you believe caused this? Might help out someone else..

Bill Dwyer told me about 35 years ago "every dog has a gift. It might not be gifted at what uou need it to do, but it has a gift for something. ". Honestly , it hasn't helped me too much, and probably won't help you either. But I never forgot it. (I do think a lot about each dogs area of giftedness though, so maybe it has helped.) if you know anyone who needs to be denning coyotes this spring, let him use her. They call the coyote, shoot it, and then use the dog to back trail it to the den. She has a genetic gift for backtrailing.

The first time she back trails off a tree and pulls a couple pups with her, you will wish you had found her the coyote control man.

If you are successful at training it out of her, please don't ever breed her.

Jeff made a good point. A drag has more concentrated scent at the beginning of the track than it does at the end of it. It's backwards.

David, What make's you think it's genetics that cause or caused back trailing? I have seen a few dog's do it that have never done it before or after so far. I don't own them but hunt with them enough to see it ain't or wasn't a occurring problem.

Merlo, I hope I am wrong. But this sounds beyond an isolated incedent as you describe you have seen. It sounds like a genetic pre-disposition to back trailing. There is nature: like a genetic pre-disposition, and there is nurture: like possibly the example if training her with a drag, and she learns the scent was much better at the beginning if the drag, and wants to get back there, and learns the best way back is right down the Back Track. Nurture (training, occurances in her environment) might trigger a genetic pre-disposition, and might suppress it. Hopefully if she has it, training might suppress it. Just as you could probably train a retreiver never to retrieve. But it will always be there waiting to come out.

Some heart breaking experiences in my own hounding have to do with genetic pre disposition to back trailing. It is just an educated guess, Merlo. We are not talking about starting an old bad cat track the wrong direction. Neither are we talking about starting a hot track the wrong direction. We are talking about taking a progressively good track the right direction and then whipping around and running it backwards because of some known or unknown trigger. People are trying to save this man some deeper heart ache, frustration, and pack damage down the road. I hope she comes out of it. It's worth a try. But I would set up situations to try dealing with it when it can not have a negative effect on other dogs. And I would not give her the opportunity to do it again in situations that might influence another young dog.

Another issue is the fact that she is barking out of place. I know some serious cat hunters who will eliminate a dog from their pack quicker for that issue than any other. I know of a young dog that was coming back silently, and was removed from the pack for that reason. And I know of another young dog that was opening out of place and was removed from the pack for that reason. Here we are dealing with both issues combined.

That's some bad stuff right there. I've seen dogs sorta do that at the tree on coon. They get the coon treed but then they are so weird or whatever that they wanna take a track away from the tree. That's jacked up breeding for sure. That drag deal may have set up some problems but I don't know cuz I never fooled with one before. I just don't see much use in stuff like that. Any gimmick I ever used just did more harm than good and it didn't take me long to realize it so I got shed of it immediately.

The issue for me would be barking out of place, But bumping it with the collar will cure both problems so it works out pretty well. So for old dogs that get beat and flip a track but have never done it there whole life that's a genetic thing? What about dogs that re-home there going down the back track.

There's several pages going already, but for what I have read......
#1 the guy who owns the dog says he has the issue figured out, so that settles it.

I have not come to the conclusion it is genetic. But I have come to the conclusion that there's definitely guys one here with their .02 who really have dog experience and are what I would consider a dog trainer type, then there are a couple guys who think they are good with dogs, then there are some who shouldn't even own a dog.

Back to the genetic thing. It really puzzles me why this particular thing would be pegged a genetic default rather than just training/handling mistakes. (and we ALL make them). I think it may be to cover up that some don't really know or care to find out and #2 they've been around too many dogs bred like a telephone pole.

nmbowhunter - I am glad you contacted the breeder and glad you are working thru your issue.

merlo_105 wrote:The issue for me would be barking out of place, But bumping it with the collar will cure both problems so it works out pretty well. So for old dogs that get beat and flip a track but have never done it there whole life that's a genetic thing? What about dogs that re-home there going down the back track.

Merlo, I think this whole topic is about re - running the track backward not necessarily a back track race. The only time I have had dogs do that was real old dogs in the sunset of there career when they were going senile and should've been retired rather than run on a track. On a tough race when my dogs quit they usually take the back track out till the first drive able road which they will travel down hill till I pick them up. If I have to go in to get laid up dogs I usually get really pissed, so my dogs have learned if they quit a race, they come out or face the consequences of my temper and most of the time the only way they know out is following the back track out.

I have found this topic very interesting even though I never had a dog do that except old senile dogs. I think a dog running a track forward a mile than flipping the track and running it backward a mile wide open has some serious issues. There are some interesting suggestions on how to correct this. One thing to keep in mind if you want good hounds and the best out there over your career of hound hunting you will have to cull dogs, how you go about culling them is your business.

Dogs get their trailing ability from their parents and ancestors right along with nose,speed,treeing instinct"etc".Some are smart track dogs others are dumb as a rock .Some just make an occasional mistake,others screw up consistently and they are the ones that cause problems .Dogs that don't have much treeing instinct will often get to a cat tree,flip the track and trail back to the starting point .Others will flip the track when they make a lose,others will jack a track back and forth,never getting anywhere.There may only be one pup in the litter to have these traits but it usually comes from an ancestor that did the same thing .These are the ones i suggest you don't keep but i have seen guys wear out shock collars on them with some success.If you keep them and then breed them you'll probably have the same problem all over again .

So. We have a few people who say it's genetic but it's only hyperbole?


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As i said earlier the advice is free and only meant to be helpful not to run anyone's dogs down .If followed it might save you time and headaches but can also be disregarded if not agreed with.