BigGameHoundsmen.com

Most of us that hunt love our dogs and care for them to the best of our ability .There are a few that just see them as a tool .
When training dogs one should always use the minimal amount of correction necessary to stop the behavior .A dogs personality usually determines what that is .The smarter ones learn quickly while the hardheads take more time.I've had 2 hounds ( a walker and bluetick ) that could take correction on the maximum level ,it would stop them but when you let off the button they resumed the chase with even more passion .Interestingly enough they both made good dogs with extra cold noses and tons of desire .
Shock collars are a blessing to houndmen but require thought before use .Even after all the years i've used them i still screw up on occasion and its always when i lose my temper . I've never ruined a dog with one but i kick myself when i screw up.
Always praise your dogs when they do something right .I like to give them a hot dog or milkbone when they do what i want .
A well trained dog is a pleasure to own and hunt ! Always remember to go easy on the correction but lavish on the praise when they do something right.Another thing to remember and perhaps more importantly is:All the training in the world can't make up for a lack of breeding and ability !!!

I don't think you can over obedience train a hound. However, with that said, there is a huge difference in a Houndsman and a hound hunter and how they handle and work dogs. Most of the "over obedience trained" dogs so to speak that I have seen are/were owned by hound hunters and not houndsmen.
If you are going to attempt to train a dog you have to know how, and be able to, get into that dogs head, to read him and his body language and see the world thru his mind, thru his eye's on his level, and not thru your human mind and eye's.
In a dogs world you are a pack and either he is going to be the leader or you are.

Training dogs is no different than raising kids you have to be loving, and fair, but firm. You have to know there personalities and thought process well enough to know how to teach/mentor them without crossing over the line from teaching/mentoring to abuse and fear.

I have never seen a kid or dog that was over trained on manners. However, I have seen some in both that were abused and controlled thru fear, and the negative impact and reactions that are the results . Big diifference in the two.

Last night I was watching an agility trial on tv . Amazing to see dogs so well trained and still retain such a desire to please their master. A pretty clear example of discipline and training, with out breaking spirit. Not hounds or hunting dogs but a dogs a dog in some cases.

Festus, I really liked your thoughts. I always considered myself as hunting with hounds and not a houndsman. I love dogs that are easy to handle. I would prefer to catch everything but I have a great day either way. Good thing.

I'm not going into the competition with any illusions of grandeur, but I do hope to see some good dogs and see where we stack up.[/quote]

Hey bud, I'm not sure where in Wyoming you're located but there was a kid out in lander that I gave a decent compatition coon dog to. If you want I can get his number rounded up and maybe you two can hook up and do some hunting. That should give you an idea as to what a average compatition coon dog hunts like. He's been in the money a time or two. Anyhow, best of luck to you and sounds like you have a decent dog on your hands.

Tanner

my dogs do not rig well ,because i keep them so quiet around home to the point of overobedience if you want to call it that.legally ,and because we dont want to listen to it either they have to be that way where i live i am very firm with them.they come from lines that rig very well,so i know it is the fact that they are a little afraid to open up around me.they will also stop themselves when they start to rig.when i get to the tree i have had some stop treeing until i praised them in the past.it can be a fine line ,between having an obedient dog or a dog that holds back a little.

I am not sure what you mean by over obedience. One thing I learned is that I do not discipline my dogs that are with me except if a dog fight is in the makings. Within 15 feet of me is a safe zone for my dogs, in that zone they get nothing but praise from me. Dogs can learn to not bark at home in most cases it should be different for them striking or barking at the tree. I would look at how you break your dogs from barking and look for a different way that might not have them feel intimidated by your present. An obedient dog should only want to please you and want to be with you as a hunting partner. Dewey

dewey i used overobedience as a way to describe them holding back a little .my line of dogs which i like can be hard headed,and will test every avenue to nuisance bark.i do what is necessary to keep hounds where i live.having the law and angry neighbors on my doorstep is not an option.my dogs are a little intimidated by me ,but its not to the point i cant catch game with them or they hate me lol.i just know it holds them back a little at times ,and im fine with that .its not like they have to rig for me ,as i dont have to hunt that way.they just have to please me at home ,and in the field which they do.im just being honest ,and giving information on this subject based on my experience.you could say do this or do that try this .i have quiet hounds in the yard ,and i catch game with them.nothing needs to change .its my way lol.

kordog I did not mean to sound critical to you just offering a different way of thinking that might give you a different out come. We all have our way of doing things,not that it is better or worst, but just different. Before the days of electric collars I had some dogs so shy of me that they were hard to catch. Through the years I have seen or done most everything trying to train dogs. They all work in one way or another, some better than others. I just was putting my thoughts out there to be considered. Each to their own, if is not broke don't fix. Have a good day, Dewey

I've run into the same problem as kordog. I don't tolerate barking in the yard and may get a little tough on them at times.
I've got 3 pups in the yard and I'm going try Dewey's approach with the "safe zone". Can't learn if you don't try new things....

dwalton wrote:kordog I did not mean to sound critical to you just offering a different way of thinking that might give you a different out come. We all have our way of doing things,not that it is better or worst, but just different. Before the days of electric collars I had some dogs so shy of me that they were hard to catch. Through the years I have seen or done most everything trying to train dogs. They all work in one way or another, some better than others. I just was putting my thoughts out there to be considered. Each to their own, if is not broke don't fix. Have a good day, Dewey

ive just found what really works for my situation through alot of trial and error over along time that includes using shock collars.i also have 2 very sensitive beagles that i absolutely cannot be to harsh on or they would just shut down completely,and they require a lighter aproach to training,but they are way easier broken of unwanted behavior due to their sensitive nature.i am no way offended dewey for your thoughts.i just know what works for me.the next evolution of dog gear may change my mind though.perhaps an implant that is a shock system or an ear implant so you can talk to them directly,or a remote control to just shut the bark off.

If a person is smart enough to be able to teach a dog to "come" on command they should be able to teach the same dog to "hush" on command. But i have seen a lot of guys running down 10 year old dogs too. Lol

Mark sometimes you are just right on. Have a good day. Dewey

huntinwyo wrote:David I've thought about all those things you talked about. Like Kevin was saying about his dogs, he hasn't been real trashy. I started him on coon and he had early exposure to coon naturally (without a cage). That's not to say that he hasn't treed turkeys, ran deer and coyotes because he's done all of these!. I think the best advice I got from the years of research and reading I've done and did before getting in to this sport is, buy a well bred pup and don't put a shock collar on! I've never shocked him in the woods and I'll give one example why. Last night we hit a spot that is bordered by the Platte river to the north, 800 yards of woods that follows the river all the way and then a large irrigation ditch to the south and then a very large pasture. Boozer hit a track right away on the ditch and then ran fast and hard wide open a cross the field. I thought for sure he hit a coyote which he has done twice in the last month or so and probably would have shocked him if I had one on. Well he curved the track around went back across the ditch went silent for a min or so and let out his super long locate bawl! I knew he was treed and I knew I'm too stupid to be trusted with a shock collar! This sort of scenario has happened to me a bunch over the past year and I'm glad you guys give sound advice. I'm not going into the competition with any illusions of grandeur, but I do hope to see some good dogs and see where we stack up.

This is an interesting post to me. One of the things in it, I underlined because I have never read this or heard this advice. Where did you read this or hear not to ever put a shock collar on when hunting?

I do see the wisdom in it. Many mistakes have been made with the collars. But it seems like cruelty to humans to deny the use of perhaps the greatest training tool to come along in the last few thousand years or so.

Here is the suggestion I always make regarding the use of the collars while hunting. It really reduces or eliminates the chances of wrongful stimulation:

Teach your dogs that they have to come when you call them.

They need to know this is not optional no matter what they are doing. Once they know for sure the meaning of your command or horn to come, and once they are taught the safety zone Dewey mentioned; then they should be toned and shocked when they do not respond immediately to your signal to come, whatever that signal might be. And when they are in the safety zone, petted and praised: the more severe the correction, the longer the time in the safety zone being praised and building relationship. [up to twenty minutes, walking close to you, stopping with you for more petting, comfort and praise; learning I am always safe and comfortable when I am right here by my master]

This is where I part ways with the folks who want to separate (dis-associate) the tone and shock from themselves. When I use it I want my dog to know without a doubt that it came from me, and it came for refusal to come when called.

Once this training is complete, you never have to worry about wrongful stimulation. If you are having doubts about what the dog is doing, call him. If he does not come immediately, tone him, and if you think it might have been off game, also shock him. He already knows he will be shocked if he ignores you. He ignored you. Therefore he got shocked. Doesn't matter if it was good game or not. You have been completely consistent with him, so his trust in you is strengthened; and re-enforced once he is in that wonderful safe zone again.

Very well said David !!