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Saying you can do somthing just because it is legal is very ignorant. It is actions like that which leads us to senseless laws governing our every day activities. If someone has to tell you that going out and repeatedly dumping on every female you cross is wrong then you shuld just stop. Im against the government controlling every aspect of my life. It would make a difference though I suppose to have a Tom only tag and i even mentioned it in a post before but do we really need the fish cops governing us further? Cant we be big boys and police ourselves? Guess not.

Whats wrong with dumping out on females? Nothing. Its the choice to kill or not to kill usually, if what I hear you saying Timothy is not to kill or not to turn out on a female period. You sound like a hard headed rookie. If I understand you right you would rather not turn you dog loose to chase and ATTEMPT to catch a female and move on to find a "tom" excuse me a "mature tom"? I am confused. There is nothing wrong with trying to catch a female it is legal. Come on really with the whole pregnant thing? Really? There are deer and elk hunts that are held when the does and cows are pregnant and there are seasons in the west that allow you to harvest them when a calf/fawn are still young. Its the hunters choice to kill it or not. Do you get on Monster Muleys and ride deer and elk hunters about killing spikes, forks, cows and does? Come on lets be realistic here. I am not condoning a killing on female lions but really? I am talking about all the Western states not just Utah.

Lets not sugar coat it too much and make yourself look too good here! One, how many lion hunts have you had in the last 4 years, i bet the number is in the single digits, low single digits. How many clients have you guided in the last 2 years for lion? I'm guessing there will not be an answer to these questions. Two, you hunt a special draw unit portion of the state so tags are drawn, makes it a little easier to be selective.

Well Larry, you're right, I only average a couple of cat hunters a year now, but it was the same when it was still quota. I should clarify a bit too. I don't condone the taking of females necessarily as long as it is legal, I don't understand it, and choose not to do it myself, but if you want to kill every female within 50 miles of Craig, that is your choice. Funny, a few years ago, you were adamantly opposed to killing females...Now that you are taking hunters, its ok?

I also think that just chasing females is fine and killing females that are killing livestock needs to be done as well. I just think that females that can be spared should be. It is not like the females are considered a worthy trophy mount and the comparison that its like the killing of does and cows is totally different also, those are killed for the meat and there is a ton more of em. JMO

Thanks alot devin. I care more for the sport than to destroy the population thank you very much. I'm not saying that I am just piling up females left and right. But over the years the decision has been made by my hunters to dump a female here and there. most of these people that would even kill a female are old men that spent their last dime to get a cat for their trophy collection. it was their dream come true to kill that, it was legal and it was great fun. I even shot a female once myself to save a couple dogs from dying. I know you can't go killing a bunch of females and expect to have something to run next year. like I stated before the lions where I hunt are very stable in population and we find a track pretty much every time out. I think only a couple females have died over my dogs in the last decade, so I don't feel like I single handedly destroyed a sport. I think if a few people didn't shoot females we would end up with people like devin killing them on depredation calls furthermore pissing off the people who already feel the way we do about wolves toward lions. it would add more fuel to the flames. our dwr is supposedly monitoring the age and amount of females harvested over a 3 year period and then adjust the number of tags based on that. so if there has really been as many females killed as we all think we should expect a drastic drop in the number of tags next year right?

timothy wrote:Saying you can do somthing just because it is legal is very ignorant. It is actions like that which leads us to senseless laws governing our every day activities. If someone has to tell you that going out and repeatedly dumping on every female you cross is wrong then you shuld just stop. It would make a difference though I suppose to have a Tom only tag and i even mentioned it in a post before but do we really need the fish cops governing us further? Cant we be big boys and police ourselves? Guess not.

Really? It is ignorant when doing thing with in the law????? It leads to senseless laws??? Ah, Doing things against the law makes senseless laws. You feel one should not kill females, the law says you can. The Anti hunting groups don't want you to hunt, run dogs, have dogs, breath air, drive your car, look at the mountains and on and on. This is why we have laws, to protect our rights big guy. You said "Im against the government controlling every aspect of my life." So, if this is the case, who gave you the right to harass and try to control a man that has expressed his legal right?????

Catch wrote:

timothy wrote:Saying you can do somthing just because it is legal is very ignorant. It is actions like that which leads us to senseless laws governing our every day activities. If someone has to tell you that going out and repeatedly dumping on every female you cross is wrong then you shuld just stop. It would make a difference though I suppose to have a Tom only tag and i even mentioned it in a post before but do we really need the fish cops governing us further? Cant we be big boys and police ourselves? Guess not.

Really? It is ignorant when doing thing with in the law????? It leads to senseless laws??? Ah, Doing things against the law makes senseless laws. You feel one should not kill females, the law says you can. The Anti hunting groups don't want you to hunt, run dogs, have dogs, breath air, drive your car, look at the mountains and on and on. This is why we have laws, to protect our rights big guy. You said "Im against the government controlling every aspect of my life." So, if this is the case, who gave you the right to harass and try to control a man that has expressed his legal right?????

Great post Catch! I agree 100%

Timothy if in fact you have been at this for one year it shouldnt be to hard to withdraw and consider somthing else for recreation.It is obvious that it very upsetting to you. You have that right. Hell it aint for everybody.
I will admit your intentions are good. It's just that somone trying to impose their will on others never does pan out. With or without goverments.

i have not hunted lions yet but would like to. is there a lot of lions out there. i am interested in hunting the northern end of the state of Utah. i have hunted coons and want to know if it is worth my time to try to get my dogs to switch from coons to lions

I might as well throw my 2 cents into this mess-

Houndnem wrote-Something about killing on depredation...Maybe I am reading it wrong if so I apologize. If I didnt read it wrong you are cutting on someone for killing lions that have killed livestock??? I come from a long line of sheep and cattle ranchers that work everyday from before light until after dark to make a tough living. Any lion killing someones livelyhood should be killed PERIOD!! To many people out there think that thier love of the sport should come before someone putting YOUR steak on the table!!

Bluewalkerlionhound wrote-Something about putting more lions in the tree than so and so will in the next five years?? Keep in mind there is anyways someone out there that is a much better hunter than yourself..........Try to stay humble

no my point with the depredation was that if we start getting alot of depredation cats showing up it makes it look like the lion population is out of controll, so it's almost better to keep em pounded a little on the harvest than have them overpopulate and show up eatin cattle or in some ones back yard. I have seen quit a few stories on the evening news this year of lions coming into peoples yards up north. to the general public that don't know any better it sure looks like those dam cats are everywhere.

Walker 83 hit the nail on the head in page 2 in my opinion, he said it EXACTLY like I would have, let's all just kill ourselves right out of a hobby and u guides out of a job, because eventually if something doesn't happen we'll all be done having fun and making money.

Timothy's desires to keep cougar populations at healthy levels is on the right track, but his methods in getting there seem to me to be misguided. I think there's a difference between policing ourselves and being a vigilante.

Ken

Holy S!!t this is crazy!!!!! nothing like a punch of old women talking about the new girl on the block, or sounds like a bunch of high school boys measuring there c!!ks.... NICE....