BigGameHoundsmen.com

ABOVE POST CONTINUED "The other is the hunter who knows anout the killing and does nothing about it. Houndsmen including Licensed guides are dealing in bear parts, and virtuallly every gall bladder taken from a bear in Ca is sold". "As a result of this finding Ca intends to
1. Keep the pressure on houndsmen
2. Provide additional training for our wardens to make them more effective in dealing with houndsmen.
3. Educate the public by what ever means necessary
4. Seek legislation to increase the penalties to felony status for the sale of animal parts. This could increase the risk to the officers in dealing with houndsmen or buyers.
5. Using the info gained we can deal with the houndsmen in the field more effectively. Officers can control Houndsmen activities if there is a coordinated effort.

Anyone who wants a copy of this I will get one to you. This is what we are dealing with. F&G are being told that EVERY houndsmen out there is a poacher. The treatment we are recieving is what I am upset about. If wardens were treating us fairly I would bend over backwards to help them out.

I'd rather let all the illegal gall bladder collecters go free than to violate the Const. of US! Right?

well that pretty much explains their attitude towards us. in all the years i been hunting iv never known or even heard of anyone who has sold a gall or even kept one.
i recently had a warden tell me that during deer season i could only have one dog (per licensed hunter) in a strike position ie: on top of the box or on the hood. so i asked him what if i dident have a dog box and just had all my dogs in the back of the truck, he said it didnt matter that if the dog could strike it was illegal. i couldent help but think how stupid these rules are cus most good dogs will strike form inside the box.

Folks, I'm not saying you dont have rights, and exercise them. From a distance, it seems C.A. Has always been known for bear gall capital, and sales of claws etc. There isnt handbooks printed, because it isnt happening, or been a problem in the past. We have as many bear hunters as any state in the U.S.A. And there isnt a handbook here. We did have a guy, on the other side of the state, busted five years ago for galls, and they nailed him, which they should, as its my sport to, and giving it a bad name. I pop mine on the spot, so I'm never accused or questioned about one. I've stood up to wardens on gray area's, etc. They know if they search my truck, there welcome to, but they better find what there looking for, or we have problems. Years ago, the wardens here was low down scum, hated by all. And the locals set them up, and aggravated them night and day. I had a warden which was obsessed with catching me at something, two many dogs, loaded gun, anything. I lost it a few times on him and his tactic's also. He was a local, grew up here, and got hurt, and done for life. One night I seen him in a bar and several whiskeys later, I found my answers I was looking for, which may help you folks.

He had a profile on me, my family or guys I hunt with time to time. Yep, pull up your name,, stops, conversations, attitude, activity's, anything he wanted to know, was on the computer, even from wardens before him, probably going back at least 15 years from the way he talked. So, at closing time I asked him why me? He said, there were two families, I wanted to bust in my career, and you guys were one of them. I asked why, he said, no other wardens did, or for anything that amounted to anything. I seen it as a challenge, I figured two many dogs, or something else, would lead to a smoking gun, which I didn't find. I felt guilty until proven innocent, by my last name or I'm the fourth generation of bear hunters, and in the woods a lot,and must be doing something wrong. Make sense of that??? My point being, I would Imagine, they probably profile and do the same things out there, and is handed down to a new warden when he comes in. Who knows the notes they read, from the previous wardens.

In the last 15 years, we have also educated the wardens, we take the new wardens hunting for a day to understand our sport. Usually the govenor is at the Bear hunters, annual meeting, along with dnr people. Bottom line, we get along now, they have a job to do, they also respect us as bear hunters and citizens with families. We now have a bill of rights to hunt and fish. And have gained more ground then lost, but not without compromise. This came from folks working together, cleaning up their acts, etc. It can be done. Bottom line, we are votes, and are united, and have money. My suggestion, would be, instead of trying to win the battle that day, focus on winning the war. Which mean's a change in attitude, being united, and starting a positive relationship with the wardens, local governments, right up to the govenor, in your state. Dont even post, why you cant, I'm sure I have heard that excuse several times. This was accomplished over time, and was no easy task. For everyone involved. It doesnt seem your way is working, might want to consider changing direction.
good luck
Ron

Cat and Bear. You are correct in how we would like things. We HAVE tried all of the things you mention in your reply. I'll give you an example. The local chapter of the Safari Club whom my friend was an officer in held a fund raising dinner for Fish and Game. They sent two representatives. Not knowing their were houndsmen present within 1 hr they began bashing houndsmen. Several clubs have done what you are suggesting. F&G wants the money from houndsmen but they want houndsmen gone. Another example of what we are dealing with. The same chapter of Safari Club set up a fishing day for kids on a private pond with Stocked fish. No way wild fish could get into this cowpasture pond. They advertised it all over the place and had a huge turn out of kids who had never fished before or were disabled. The local warden saw the flyers and did not bother to contact anyone. He showed up the day of the event and began writing tickets to anyone who was 16 or older who didnt have a fishing license. He said ANY body of water unless you have an aqua agriculture license for raising fish requires a fishing license. We cannot win in changing their minds while they still have the power.

Now all of this warden bashing is not getting us anywhere. People who are not dealing with this seem to think I and others are over reacting. We are not. What I would like to see is Fish and Game treat EVERY hunter the same. This is my plan. We need to rally as many houndsmen and hunters as possible. Write in a complaint about the way Fish and Game is portaying houndsmen on that show. Not attacking the show but how the houndsmen were portrayed when NO evidence to suggest that the gall bladder was going to be sold exist. Second we need to all know our rights and explain to the officer in the field that we intend to use our rights. Talk nice to the officer and explain why you feel the way you do. RECORD EVERY conversation with an officer when in a PUBLIC place. Advise them you are recording. Immediately file complaints for a violation of your rights. This will not change their minds but it will make them behave a little better.
The second part of the plan. We need to have all of our clubs try to work with fish and game, taking wardens out on trips with us etc.(this has been tried again recently with negative results). Keep in mind F&G will accept this and use it as a info/evidence gathering tool. If we did this the best people to represent houndsmen should be chosen. Third their needs to be a massive public campaign to educate the public on who we are.

We should focus on the positives. Use bill boards, the internet, and especially the local news outlets. Now here is the problem with this pipe dream. It has all been tried before. The reason it fails is the inability to unite houndsmen. Its like all things, one club will try it. The first few months go pretty good. Then the people who were all excited about it start to lose interest. Pretty soon you have only 2-3 people doing all the work. It cannot work under those conditions. Doing something similiar to this MIGHT help to rebuild the relationship between Ca F&G and the houndsmen. Doubt it but anything is worth a try.

have you guys noticed that when they show up to a car or house that they ask for permission to search the vehical or house, then when its just the camera man and the officer they always state that the owner gave them permission, exept for the felons. if they don't have a search warrent they will not step foot in my house, do i have anything to hide, NO. will they search my vehicle anymore, NO. Pay attention to the show, on the show they follow the rules, other wise they wouldn't have a show. A short story, we caught a bear, shot the bear, a warden showed up as we got to the truck, he drilled me for 45 min about being a guide. i'm not a guide nor do i take anything from people that go hunting with me. The people on here that are talken s@#t about us guys in california doin drugs because" thats califronia for ya LOL" go f%^K yerself, the one i like is "hunting is a privlige not a right". Driving is a privlage not a right does a cop have the right to pull you over and search yer car because you are on the highway no. This show is givin all the game warden a bad name and the people that have a gun and hunt a bad name. i heard of a guy that i know that poched deer, bust him. but when the california dept fish and game showed up at his house he was not there, his mother in law was and his 9 yr old daughter they hand cuffed his daughter as the searched the house, what the f$%K, she's 9 what is she gonna do thats the kinda shit we deal with in the state of california.
lets go huntin, kerry

Bear Hunter, your mind is in the right place of your pipe dream, it will probably take that and more. Your situation didnt happen over night, and you wont turn it in a positive direction over night either. The pond fishing post, was wrong, perhaps I would have had the outdoors newspaper or someone cover the story of what the warden done. They dont like a complaint filed against their record either. Video tape them every time they stop you. Not everyone is in love with wardens including the media, post it on you tube, form a sight. Send a letter to them with the site address, if their doing wrong. I would have had the fishing thing, in the media, and you tube, maybe that is what it will take when it comes to the bargining table But when you post it, dont bash them, simply state what has happended and video. This is a bandage, but should take some pressure off, for you long term goals, and also evidence for you guys, in court or at the big meeting. Have one site or location for all hunters in the state to report to or give video to. Here is how we approached our problem, when they were trying to get it on a state wide referendum, and get our bear season outlawed.

First, we formed about a dozen guys, that would go into this battle shoulder to shoulder, you could count on everytime, from all over the state. Most were business men, clean cut, had many resources including lawyers etc. We picked the best public speakers, guys with friends or resources to the dnr, or state representives, we hit every angle we possibly could. We had several private meetings, until our plan was in place. Then we split up, went to all the clubs in the state, had several discussions, at their meetings, got the trappers behind us, we started to unite. Meanwhile my grandfather donated some land, another friend donated the logs to build a cabin to raffle. During this period, there was a public meeting, dnr, state reps, opposition, 1400 people in attendance. Most were bear hunters, trappers, outdoorsmen, showing up in numbers for the fight.

A lot of folks stepped forward, building the cabin, all our connections, members etc, we got it put together for 30k. It took about a year to complete. Guys or familys which couldnt help, due to distance or whatever, put their efforts, in tickets, membership's, or ways they could help. Once the raffle was completed, we had about 285k headed to the bank account. The bear hunters association had 30k in 30 years, with their way of doing things, and the same good old boys on the board. So back to the long term plan we started with us twelve or so guys. We went to the clubs again, as they had the same vote as a board member. If I remember right it was 17 clubs. When it came to the annual meeting of board members, how to handle the money, the new direction, we dominated the votes that night, voted some board members off, and had a fresh beginning. Including a new write in president. We were now from 1200 members, to near 4000, and 300,000 k in the bank.

The Dnr, polititions, seen votes and money. We now had respect, but not without showing compromise and it didnt make it to the referendum. Since then we have adopt a highway clean up's, scolorships, different members dealing with the dnr, lobbist, etc. Anything we can do to stay positive in the public eye. When folks see positive things happening they will join in, and contribute. But it all started with the dozen guys, that went to war, this is how we done it, and our hounds, families etc, suffered for those two years, but we made it happen, and no, or excuses wasnt in our vocabulary good luck, i hope sharing this story, gives you idea's or a direction

LOOK CLOSELY AT THE COPS IN THE SHOWS. THEY DONT FOLLOW THE RULES. HALF THE TIME WHEN THERE DRIVING THEIR NOT WEARING SEAT BELTS. I COUNTED MULTIPULL TIMES THEM DOING THIS. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A PACK OF BEAR DOG TREE ONE OF THE WARDIN FOR RUNNING AROUND WITH BEAR SCENT AND MAKING TRACKS. THAT SHOW GIVES HUNTERS IN GENERAL A BAD NAME. LISTEN TO THE COPS ALL THE TIME THEY REFER TO PEOPLE AS TWEAKERS, DIRTBAGS, SCUM ETC HOW PROFESSIONAL IS THAT. HARDLY EVER TALK ABOUT THEM WITH THEIR NAME BUT WITH SOME SMARTASS COMMENT

Cat and Bear. Great advice. That pretty much lays out a plan. Getting the people together to follow it is the problem.

Muck. Cops are excempt from wearing a seat belt. So are taxi's, limos and other service vehicles.

well i tried haha

Hey guys I have to chime in on this. The 4th amendment protects us from unlawful searches and seizures. The wardens don't have any more power than any other law enforcement officer. There is only two ways to search a vehicle, consent which is voluntary and PC/search warrant. If they have probable cause to think that a crime has been commited then they can search, but they better be able to articulate what crime and why. The only reason they don't have to secure a search warrant is because the moblity of the vehicle. Look up the carroll docterine (1925) it still stands today. If not they are violating your civil rights.

I stopped watching that show and will not support their heads getting any bigger in any way shape or form.