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Re: Obedence
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:44 pm
by merlo_105
Yes and No, Lets say you have a young dog who's coming off the tree and going down the back track you can teach the dog to turn around with the e collar. And go back to the tree. More time spent there not playing around more chance it will locate. It does help to hunt the hair off the dogs. That's where repetition falls in.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:59 pm
by merlo_105
I'm no dog trainer. My dogs listen I do this for fun I don't demand much out of my dogs. They seem to do pretty alright. This is a good topic and a good read. A lot will be learned here.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:11 pm
by pegleg
Tanner Peyton wrote:David, I once read about a July or trigg dog, the whiskey line if I remember correctly. But anyhow I was reading up on this line and they were bread to be extremely human shy on purpose. I guess when they would take um hunting it wasn't uncommon to lose umm for a few days at a time. To prevent them from wandering into someones farm and taking up residents they were bread real shy. I wonder if the method you speak of above was use for them dogs. I could see it being real handy under under them conditions. It would be pretty heard to steal a dog you couldn't catch, haha. When I read about the whiskey line I always wondered how them old timers got those dogs to come home or come when called. I'll bet that's how. Thanks for the info David.
I can't answer for this question directly. But I have hunted lots of different types of hounds. There was a time I was having dogs stolen more often then I wanted granted it was only a little over half a dozen hounds total but the last straw was almost loosing a whole pack off a tree. So I set about stranger breaking my dogs. Some got just coyote they'd circle behind you or to where they could wind you and then come in or hit the brush if it wasn't me. But a few got sorta aggressive. They'd booger bay someone if they got caught by surprise and then head for the bushes. It came clear some of them it wasn't a good idea when a couple hikers chased one up into a mine tunnel off the side of a old rail line. I was across a ravine and could see what was happening but was slow getting there. I guess she felt trapped and started chewing on them and chased them back down the tracks to were I was able to get over and catch her off. I might not have worried to much except the last part where she was actively chasing them. Never any aggression at home or near me anywhere else but that case brought it to light. No matter how you look at it . human behavior caused the whole thing. Either my reluctance to have dogs stolen or theirs for grabbing the dog. But in the end it would have been the dog who payed for it. I have given up on stranger breaking but don't encourage them to let people handle them and keep them in eyesight but sometimes its not enough.
I whish tracking collars came with a cable or wire embedded to make them knife resistant. I use small locks through the holes but had one cut off two years ago. Haven't lost any dogs recently but it seems like hikers are the worst offenders.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:32 pm
by barksalot
Merlo; As far as I can tell you and I are in complete agreement. There are a world of things that a good trainer / handler can contribute to his dogs from puppy hood on and modern technology can be a great help. My only point was the important role played by genetics. We all start with the best pups and young dogs that we can find as future prospects but are very very fortunate when we come across that rare individual that has the power to change our hunting lives.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:43 pm
by Tanner Peyton
ethertonee wrote:He is my buddy so much that unless he is hunting he will jump out of the pick up or over the fence to be by my side or looking for me to get there.
This will never do Ed, my advice to you is to cull this dog. I would wait 6 or 7 months if I were you and then take him to the nearest town in Colorado from where you live now. Dump him off with one of my old name plate collars and the rest will take care of its self. Your welcome.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:31 am
by ethertonee
Tanner he will fetch almost better than my lab right now. He struggles a little marking and holding till release but that is about it. I have been working on this so when I shoot coons over the river and they float over the deep holes I don't have to watch them float. This happened to me once this year and I passed about 8-10 because of it. I hope it will work. I have shot 2 that got in the water alive and he got them but that scared me as one pulled him under a bit. That pissed him off and you know how that ended for that coon. I used to take my lab along when I hunted the river for that reason but he is now 11 and has cut himself bad a couple of times so he is retired from coon hunting/fetching and is now just hunted on short bird trips. He is hunting better as well. He is just struggling with staying treed. I haven't shot any to him in about a month and he is pissed at me. He looks at me cocks his head in disgust and tries to take off. We are working on that the most right now. I figured it would be about 6-7 months is all you could take till you have to have dogs again. Let me know.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:31 am
by Tanner Peyton
Oh man I'm struggling here, but it's almost over. Ive only got about 6 or 7 months
and I'll be back in business. My pal is dropping two more litters same as scout, about that time, I might look him up. I have had a little trouble with dogs like scout treeing in the past cause all they want to do is fight. They wanna catch critters with there teeth and end umm. So when something climbs a tree and your not there right away to shoot it down there puppy ADD kicks in and they go look for another fight. He'll get better and wiser with age. And what you speak of is exactly why I won't take a dog hunting in till they will come to being called under all conditions. I've watched more then on plunk through the ice because I didn't have a good Handle on them. Run a critter through a guy's cows and get shot. Get onto the neighbors place and get shot. That's very important to me that they listen me, I don't care if there in the middle of face barking a critter on the ground or reliving them selfs on a tree. When I say its time to go I want no hesitation. Most of the time it doesn't matter but every once and a while the ice is rottin and or there's a car coming and it's a real handy thing to have.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:37 am
by Tanner Peyton
Tanner Peyton wrote:Oh man I'm struggling here, but it's almost over. Ive only got about 6 or 7 months
and I'll be back in business. My pal is dropping two more litters same as scout, about that time, I might look him up. I have had a little trouble with dogs like scout treeing in the past cause all they want to do is fight. They wanna catch critters with there teeth and end umm. So when something climbs a tree and your not there right away to shoot it down there puppy ADD kicks in and they go look for another fight. He'll get better and wiser with age. And what you speak of is exactly why I won't take a dog hunting in till they will come to being called under all conditions. I've watched more then one plunk through the ice because I didn't have a good Handle on them. Run a critter through a guy's cows and get shot. Get onto the neighbors place and again get shot. That's very important to me that they listen me, I don't care if there in the middle of face barking a critter on the ground or reliving them selfs on a tree. When I say its time to go I want no hesitation. Most of the time it doesn't matter but every once and a while the ice is rottin or there's a car coming and it's a real handy thing to have.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:57 pm
by ethertonee
He does come right now if I call or tone him if he is to far, but you have to remember to turn the collar on. I got 320 now as well to help keep track of him since he is silent unless he can see it or it is less then 100 feet from him or so.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:49 pm
by scrubrunner
I do it different than most I guess, I let just weened pups run loose until they start straying to far and to long off the 5 acre home place then I pen them up except when I'm around and can keep an eye on them.
I start taking them hunting at about 1 year old, that's when they get the first training collar put on. Up until then I just let them be puppies. The only thing I train them to do is come and load up when I call. I trot them in front of the truck with several trained dogs and the pups catch on pretty quick ( a lot from monkey see monkey ). I hunt mostly public land with traffic so when I call the dogs they have to load up NOW!
I can call them off, even if they are in full cry and it doesn't effect them going back hunting because even if I have to shock them they know it was for not coming when called.
I hunt walker foxhounds, a lot of them are very sensitive and man shy. When I moved here I built the dog pen surrounded by very thick brush and a long ways from the house. The dogs never saw anyone else or the goings and comings of people on a regular basis. Every dog I raised at that pen would never let anyone but me even get close to them. They surely never hung up at a house or got stolen and they were all great homers. It might be 2 or 3 days but they would always come back to exactly where they were turned out at.
If you hunt with friends or field trial, dogs like that are a pain in the butt too. I eventually moved the dog pen to my back yard.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:34 pm
by Tim Pittman
Just a thought for everyone. I've been working with local K9 officers with their dogs, something I realized from us as houndmen and everyone else in dog training. We all definitely suppress what a dog can comprehend and be trained to do and what level, because of our own inabilities or experiences that have made things factual in our own minds which interprets limatations, and unbelief as something else being possible.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:37 am
by mark
We all definitely suppress what a dog can comprehend and be trained to do and what level, because of our own inabilities or experiences that have made things factual in our own minds which interprets limatations, and unbelief as something else being possible.
That should be copied and placed on every young hound hunters dash board!!!!!!!! Most of the older ones too but it probly wouldnt change many of their minds. Lol
Re: Obedence
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:40 am
by macedonia mule man
Iv noticed in my dogs that for every level of obedience I take them , they seem to possibly lose that much or some degree of hunting drive. My dogs that mind me the most seem to concentrate less on hunting. Obedience must take a lot of concentration for a dog.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:21 pm
by barksalot
macedonia mule man wrote:Iv noticed in my dogs that for every level of obedience I take them , they seem to possibly lose that much or some degree of hunting drive. My dogs that mind me the most seem to concentrate less on hunting. Obedience must take a lot of concentration for a dog.
Very interesting thought. Many possibilities. Is it as you suggest that obedience and hunt are inverse quantities? Is it individual personalities of dog and / or handler? Is it training methods?
Maybe All of these variables are a possible explanation as to why a cull for one man is a great dog for another man.
Re: Obedence
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:44 pm
by merlo_105
Mule man, It might be the way you train and handle your dog's. I obviously don't know what you do so I'm not pointing any fingers... Mark you are right I deal with a older gentleman who still hasn't seen any light since the day he got hounds I'm assuming. He could sure use that in sticker form and post it all over and he still wouldn't get it.