BigGameHoundsmen.com

Dogs (hounds included)can be trained to do some amazing things in
obedience /command /control and all kinds of great tricks but that doesn't translate into them treeing game .

1bludawg, Your right but you as well as a lot of people know a good handling dog or a well trained dog is more of a pleasure to hunt and in the long run you'll catch more game with dogs like this. Your not chasing dogs around the mountain they load when you got to head that way to get on the game blah blah blah. No doubt a lot of stuff ain't going to be used in the field on a regular basis. But simple things can make things easier and go by faster. Handling and understanding how to correct and when to correct are keys. Dog leaving tree, dog barking out of place or pup barking cause its hung up or behind. Stopping a trash race before it starts stopping a trash race in full swing. Dog swinging to much and gonna throw it's self out of a race. The list is long. Some people only use the ecollar for trash. Some people don't understand what there dogs are doing. Every one makes up there own story some fictional some more to the truth. Obviously well bred dog's are easier and less head ache when hunting and training. But some corrections will get that one that's not so well bred or what has it going on the right path and treeing game.

I agree ,a dog that handles well will usually catch more game and is a pleasure to hunt.
As far as some of the faults you mentioned that could be corrected by a handler who knows what's going on.I know men that work on correcting those kinds of faults.Personally i don't do that ,i don't keep dogs that have those faults .If you are successful in correcting those types of traits then you have a man made dog .If and when you breed that dog you usually have those faults to contend with all over again !My dogs must be naturals .
Let me hasten to add that this doesn't reflect on how someone else trains their dogs it's just my way of doing things and opinions differ.I hunt for pleasure,not profit or to impress others.As Al always says"To each his own".

Your 100% right. I like you wouldn't breed a dog like that. But I will hunt a dog that learns and isn't a pain as long as it has something to offer. Mostly if it excel's at starting or trailing. I don't care about the tree. As long as it stay's there i'm fine with that. I got two young dogs right now that are naturals and they are a pleasure to work with. I strive for that natural dog. But I'm a realist catching cat is catching cat if its with a natural or if its with a man made dog. At the end as long as there is game caught I'm happy. For the most part.

Obedience is a must to a certain point. But if a handler has to teach them to tree, run a track correct and any other major part of what should be breed into them then its time to to cull! Andy

I agree to a point Andy, I'm not going to spend to much time with a dog if it doesn't want to stick around the tree or if it's heading down the back track. If a dog ain't going to run a track I'm not gonna mess with it. If I hunted 2 to 4 dog's I would be way pickier on what I wanted. Running 8 I can be more forgiving kinda. I don't have a female I would breed to reasons very, one is weak on the rig and ain't a start dog. The other doesn't bark enough on a cold track. Both of them females will catch there own game consistently. So it's what a person can settle with. Not every dog is going to make it we all know that, but i'm not going to shop around all day looking for a do it all dog that suites me there to far and few between.

This is a very interesting topic. I think a lot of obedience issues are overcome if your dogs respect you and like you. I have heard of guys toning there dogs off a tree or bayup from a road as it was to hard to get there. In my opinion dogs should always know that if they catch something you will be there. If there is a mutual trust and respect between a handler and his hounds many obedience issues are easily taken care of.

Everyone has their opinion, if it works for you more power to you.
Here is a couple of stories about dogs that were not mine but a close friends that hunted with me. The first one he bought was a dog that had been hunted by a hunter that catches a lot of game. For me being hunted with my dogs it had two major faults barking off track and hitting a road on a cat track running up the road barking ever breath until it was way past where the cat left. With a little correction the dog was broke from both habits. Both habits will kill a good track. I will not hunt with dogs that has either fault if you do soon you will not be catching many bobcats, your other dogs can learn bad habits from such a dog. I would not breed to such a dog or hunt with it if the problem stays. The second dog was gave to him people had given up on her but of good blood lines, a me too dog at a young age barking a lot off track showing to much mouth. With a little work she became a top bobcat dog and trained a good pack of dogs. I don't tolerate many faults in my dogs especially if it takes away from me treeing bobcats. I will correct things that can be easily corrected that could make a top bobcat dog out of it. You can have what you are willing to put up with or not put up with in a dog. Most people that bobcat hunt catch a few bobcats being that the bobcats are smart, run roads a hard to tree and most of those are caught in the snow. There are a few people that catch a bobcat almost every time out and catch most that they jump in most conditions. Maybe the difference is what they are willing to put up with or without in a dog and knowing the difference.

Dewey here is something to think about just throwing it out there. Why does barking off track affect the bobcat race so much? Yes there's the obvious reasons and we will all agree on them. But maybe it's cause there's more dogs in there that rely on so and so to do the work. I like a dog that gives a lot of mouth and yes I want it to be barking when it has the cat. But I have talked with a few who also like a lot of mouth say that it shouldn't matter if a dog barks out of place or if it's behind or hung up on a strong scent pocket the dogs a head should know better and if your dogs don't learn to listen and under stand that dog then there probably retarded. We all agree a cat dog need's brains so shouldn't they know when dumb dumb is barking in one spot and when dumb dumb is moving out on the track. I agree get rid of the problem or fix the problem. This is Just for thought. I agree with you dhostetler a dog will probably do better if it likes you and shares a bond

Is it possible a hound that/s barking behind other dogs can actually help catch game at times, providing the lead dog or dogs are intelligent enough to realize the situation? Just something to think about. Al

Merlo, I agree with you for the most part. My best dogs generally ignore a dumb dog barking off track but I have also seen where they got screwed up by an ADS dog cold trailing a road traveler. If they get in a situation like that I try to pull the hyper dog out. On a jump or good moving coldtrail I generally do not have a problem with an off barking dog. I guess I have been lucky as most of the off barking dogs I have run had that problem as pups and generally grew out of it by 2 years old.

To each his own, but I will hunt a dog with 0 obedience training that I have to tackle to catch before I hunt with one that barks out of place! Yes some puppies do it but they better stop it pretty quick or they find another home.
In the foxhound world it is known as babbling and barking out of place and neither is to be tolerated.

I'm no fan of a babbler. Al, I do believe a dog behind barking can help catch game. A dog four dogs back can control the front dogs. So if back dog say's go left the front goes left. The dog in back might be the one running the cat the pup's up front are doing there thing while taking direction from the behind dog.

merlo_105 wrote:I'm no fan of a babbler. Al, I do believe a dog behind barking can help catch game. A dog four dogs back can control the front dogs. So if back dog say's go left the front goes left. The dog in back might be the one running the cat the pup's up front are doing there thing while taking direction from the behind dog.

You lost me a bit, try to explain to a challenged old timer. PLEASE Al

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTICQdUXyw4 Here is the best I can do.