BigGameHoundsmen.com

I hear of changes to the lion hunting regulations in the US on a regular basis...according to those who are in charge of regulations it seems there are either to many cats in some units or no cats in other units...
Increase the quota....cut the quota.....no sub quota on females... the list goes on...

Who knows more about lions and population levels in these units than the houndsmen in the field???
We all want a susainable and huntable lion population as well as keep them within a controled number as to allow a healthy ungulate population and trophy quality for sport hunters to benifit...
Anyone that is a lion hunter in Alberta should contact their F&W office AND ASRD in Edmonton requesting they inform you of any further meetings being held regarding regulation changes concerning cougars and cougar management in the proviance...
A meeting was held in January 2010, and little is know of what topics were discussed and who attended...I can not get information about that meeting form anyone..
(quote from a person at the meeting) I will try to get that information and get back to you....????

I was made aware that there are some major regulation changes being considered that could effect lion hunting and populations throughout the proviance in the future..
Lets make sure we as houndsmen ,outfitters and resident hunters all have a say on these proposed changes, if we do not, we could be facing some big changes in the way we hunt lion in the near future....

Brent, I attended a meeting on wednesday night with a portion of it being pertaining to this subject. Their looking at completely revamping the whole system, zones, zone types and sizes, and quotas. They seemed to be aiming towards killing more lions (mainly females) in areas where there having trouble with lion/human encounters. There were several "acerage owners" in attendance complaining about cats being in there yards etc etc. I think the moral of the story is the lion population in Alberta is starting to extend its boundaries further north and east, as well as grow in numbers, in general...or so they say. They showed some numbers and graphs to support there theories and ideas.

I talked afterward with the biologist and officer about hounddoggers having a say in these matters. I have a good relationship with both and they agreed that we should have a voice and probably know better then anyone the areas and lion densities within. I would imagine there is some guys on this board that know more on this matter then I do and hopefully willl here from them. If you would like I can get in touch with that biologist and try and get the info and proposed changes emailed to me and get them to you or posted on here. He said these changes may take effect as early as 2011.

Hope this helps some

Brent I was an invited attendee at that January meeting and would gladly fill you in on its content as well as my take on its subject matter if your interested. Gordon B. was to email APOS members affected and I am sure he will, he just may not have complete material and data at present. You could touch base with him as well. I think the 8-9 of us affected through APOS definately need to confer on this matter........

If you kill more females you will have more lion/human encounters don't they know that by know. Good lord it is plain as day if you study the situation. Kill the females, the subs wander hungry not very skilled they get around pets and livestock they kill them easily. Wow let's hang out here and see how this works out. Wow what is that little blond haired animal leading that puppy on a leash>? Wow I bet that is tasty...and then they raise another generation of closeliving cougar kittens that are use to being close to humans. Tell me who has dealt with more lion/human encounters in Cananda than Dan Lay? Ask him what he thinks about killing more females to resolve the problem.


Nuts!

Mike Leonard wrote:If you kill more females you will have more lion/human encounters don't they know that by know. Good lord it is plain as day if you study the situation. Kill the females, the subs wander hungry not very skilled they get around pets and livestock they kill them easily. Wow let's hang out here and see how this works out. Wow what is that little blond haired animal leading that puppy on a leash>? Wow I bet that is tasty...and then they raise another generation of closeliving cougar kittens that are use to being close to humans. Tell me who has dealt with more lion/human encounters in Cananda than Dan Lay? Ask him what he thinks about killing more females to resolve the problem.


Nuts!

Mike
You have seen and can reccognise these trends with lions and lion management from your years of experience as a lion hunter ...I know Dan has also proven that more than once....but no one in the wildlife Dept. listens and that's where the problem is..... I reccognise this more every time a topic of this nature arises where the Game Dept. makes decissions based on nothing more than theory a modle and information that is not factual ...most of us lion hunters do not have 3 letters behind our names, our input and experience is not reccognised as crediable information to make a reccommendation therefore our opinions are not viable in their eyes.

houndcrzy wrote:Brent, I attended a meeting on wednesday night with a portion of it being pertaining to this subject. Their looking at completely revamping the whole system, zones, zone types and sizes, and quotas. They seemed to be aiming towards killing more lions (mainly females) in areas where there having trouble with lion/human encounters. There were several "acerage owners" in attendance complaining about cats being in there yards etc etc. I think the moral of the story is the lion population in Alberta is starting to extend its boundaries further north and east, as well as grow in numbers, in general...or so they say. They showed some numbers and graphs to support there theories and ideas.

I talked afterward with the biologist and officer about hounddoggers having a say in these matters. I have a good relationship with both and they agreed that we should have a voice and probably know better then anyone the areas and lion densities within. I would imagine there is some guys on this board that know more on this matter then I do and hopefully willl here from them. If you would like I can get in touch with that biologist and try and get the info and proposed changes emailed to me and get them to you or posted on here. He said these changes may take effect as early as 2011.

Hope this helps some

Thanks for the insight....
I find it interesting though, that I have been asking F&W for over 15 years to get together and discuss some concerns I have regarding cougar management in the south, to date I have heard nothing from F&W or APOS remotly related to any meetings being held until after the fact and I had to dig for that information from a rumor???
I've been lion hunting in Alberta since 1977 but it seems that's of no value.....I always hear about these meetings weeks after they have taken place....where was the Wendensday meeting held that you attended and who attended it??
Here is a typical situation regarding acerage owners....
I asked on 3 different occations to hunt a big tom that was living in a small area next to several small acerages... the answer was NO!!!!!.. we like these cats around, we (the acerage oweners) have gotten together and want to protect them so absolutly no hunting on our land what so ever.
Then this same lion kills a llama... 10 days later it kills another one ...
I have a contract with SRD for the problem cougar in southern Alberta and I find out the lion has killed the llamas after I have put my hounds on the track to catch and collar it for a reaserch project.... the landowner wants F&W called...the lady that wanted to protect the lion in Dec.changed tune real fast.... kill the lion!!!! we don't need an animal that is killing our pets living here...so G&F kill a big trophy tom..
I'm glad that there are a few biologists on steeam ,however they do not and can not make changes...the paper pushers have final say and it's politics not wildlife management that has the final say.
The grizzly bear is proof of that.

Brent I attended the meeting in Whitecourt, about 2 hours west of Edmonton if your not familier with the towns up here. The only reason I heard about it is a friend of mine who is tight with the F&G up here caught wind of it. I heard about it about 4 hours before the meeting started and headed over there as he said there was going to be some issues disscussed regarding cougars. I would say there was about 30 members of the public in attendance, ranging from hunters and trappers to ranchers and acherage owners. Myself and the acerage owners seemed to be the only people the least bit interested in the Lion business. I have lived and hunted here my entire life and this is the first meeting of this nature I was ever aware of but apparently they have them yearly. I guess there not very well "advertised" I know there was another one regarding the same stuff the following night about 45 minutes from here.

Mike this biologist claimed that of the total harvest objective %25 killed females would leave the lion population stable, and that they were looking to get that percentage higher???

They also were looking for feedback on opening a "boot only" season on lions!?! I raised my hand and asked him how they planned on people sexing cats while shooting them on foot at a few hundred yards? The F&G officer seemed to be wondering the same thing? It was a goat rope. I dont know how much good it would have done at this stage but it woulda been nice to know about this deal a little more in advance so that we could have been better represented as lion hunters and houndsmen.

houndcrzy wrote:Brent I attended the meeting in Whitecourt, about 2 hours west of Edmonton if your not familier with the towns up here. The only reason I heard about it is a friend of mine who is tight with the F&G up here caught wind of it. I heard about it about 4 hours before the meeting started and headed over there as he said there was going to be some issues disscussed regarding cougars. I would say there was about 30 members of the public in attendance, ranging from hunters and trappers to ranchers and acherage owners. Myself and the acerage owners seemed to be the only people the least bit interested in the Lion business. I have lived and hunted here my entire life and this is the first meeting of this nature I was ever aware of but apparently they have them yearly. I guess there not very well "advertised" I know there was another one regarding the same stuff the following night about 45 minutes from here.

Mike this biologist claimed that of the total harvest objective %25 killed females would leave the lion population stable, and that they were looking to get that percentage higher???

They also were looking for feedback on opening a "boot only" season on lions!?! I raised my hand and asked him how they planned on people sexing cats while shooting them on foot at a few hundred yards? The F&G officer seemed to be wondering the same thing? It was a goat rope. I dont know how much good it would have done at this stage but it woulda been nice to know about this deal a little more in advance so that we could have been better represented as lion hunters and houndsmen.

Thanks for the info, it sheds a bit more light on this...I feel it's time that F&W makes more effort to let stake holds aware of meeting that are held regarding issues of this nature.
I've hunted lion up in that area south of Whitecourt a few times years back and have taken some good quality toms.
Consider if they decided to have a meeting on grizzly bears and they kept it a secret with little if any attempt to let the public know...not sure they'd get away without some heat from several orginazations...
Boot season????..that sounds like a typical Gov't employee's idea...kill a female with kittens, that'd go over well with the enviornmentalists after a few are found dead ...or have some guy shot at and wound a cat at 300 yds and with no snow and no reference where he shot at it once he gets to the other side of the canyon , (even if he attempts to look for it) I'm sure there are some hunters who would not be real anxious to follow a cat into heavy thick cover at dusk when they think it could be wounded..
Saying that, it appears they want to reduce cougar numbers in alot of places and that is a cost that will have to be accepted....
It seems it's who you know no what you know that gets results these days.
Appreciate you keeping in touch.

Brent & Kelly,

Not sure of the law up there, but after researching the state laws down here, I found out that the wildlife is owned by the citizens of the state and the G&F is intrusted to manage that wildlife using sound biological principles. If this is the case up there, all you have to do is mention this to the G&F people in charge. Let them know that their covert, secret meetings are unacceptable, and if continued, will be exposed for what it is. If they like their nice, cushy Gov't. jobs they need to play fair. When they realize you are on to them, you will be put on a notification list and be apprised of every single meeting.

liontracker wrote:Brent & Kelly,

Not sure of the law up there, but after researching the state laws down here, I found out that the wildlife is owned by the citizens of the state and the G&F is intrusted to manage that wildlife using sound biological principles. If this is the case up there, all you have to do is mention this to the G&F people in charge. Let them know that their covert, secret meetings are unacceptable, and if continued, will be exposed for what it is. If they like their nice, cushy Gov't. jobs they need to play fair. When they realize you are on to them, you will be put on a notification list and be apprised of every single meeting.

Liontracker
I made a few calls asking this question a few years ago, was told all wild game in the proviance belongs to the Crown...??
I asked who is the Crown ...is that not the people of the proviance???
I never recieved an answer to that question...as with most government bodies, no one I am assuming is willing to be held accountable for putting themselves in that spot of answering that question.
So I have made another call and requested that answer.
I'll let ya know IF they answer.

Thanks
Brent

Isn't there an official registry of laws for the Country and/or the Crown that you could search on line and read the law first hand?

Brent are you a member of the ABTHA (Alberta Tree Hound Association)
The new President sent out an e mail awhile back about the meeting your talking about.

(Quote)
I hope everyone’s holidays went well. I am sending out an email to all about a meeting I will be attending this month about our cougar management issues. This is a list of topics that we will be discussing please review I now it is point form but if you have any issues or things you might like brought up please let me know asap.



Topics for Discussion:

Methods to set quotas
Range expansion
Cougar management in the White Zone
Uneven harvest pressure within CMAs
Christmas Break closure & Season Dates
Incidental (non-hunting) mortality
Outfitter allocations
Chase season


Thanks Jason Martyn

Here's some more information about the up coming Field Trials with Jason's phone number
(Quote)
Good Day

I have started getting things ready for the trials on June 19th. Being my first year at this and another large project on the go for our trials I need all members to help out as much as possible. We need to get everything covered to make our trials run smooth.

At this time Eric has applied for our land use permit and contacted deephole for the outhouses. Murray Selzer, I heard you where the man for getting insurance, are you interested in getting this again for us? Ribbons, trophies, hides, scent etc! We still need. I think Marlyin talked to the meal wagon? Tent did we rent that or how did that work? Getting someone to drag with the bike?

Also if each member could go out and get a donation or 2 would help the club greatly. Please if you do get something please let me know via email so we know what all we got, and what we may need.

Next and the biggest thing. I would like to have 2 members designated for each event to run it. Get it set up make sure things are ready for the event! Have a starter and judges.

This is important to keep this club together and running well. If we can get this event to run smooth and professionally we have the opportunity to take our club and Hound trials to a all new level.

So let’s come together and get this done.





Jason Martyn

403 638 5201

lpo@telus.net

I am not a member of the ABTHA I am however a member of APOS .
Very poor effort on their part as well as SRD to let stake holds know there are major regulations changes being proposed that can and will effect your business and or recreational hunting next year....
A few yrs ago there was a push from some members of the ABTHAssoc. to SRD to revoke my NR lion allocations, so at that time I decided to not renew. I am away so much in my business I never make any meetings and such ...but I guess thats a poor excuse...
I did get a ph. call a couple days prior to the meeting In Rocky from someone I have never heard of asking questions abour lion hunting concerns, I asked a few questions and sent an email expecting a reply to my questions and that was the last I heard of anything until I pryed around and got a few answers myself...
I did recieve the email from Jason after inquiring about membership to the ABTHA...

Thanks for your email and comments...
Brent

To keep things in perspective I would just like to add that the ABTHA did at no time have any mandate to remove anyones hunting opportunity be it resident or non-residentThe push you are talking about came from a resident club not a hounds organization.
Having said that I am not sure that given the circumstances at the time it would be different today,however times and circumstances are not the same.
I was at the meeting in Rocky and agree with the general feeling that we are going to have big changes coming shortly and they may not be favourable for any of us.
APOS was very well represented at the meeting,it is unfortunate that you have not recieved information from them.
I have been trying to pass along all I can to anyone who would like it ABTHA member or not,you are welcome to it if you would like Brent.

ERIC
THANKS FOR YOUR INFO, AND VIEWS .
I HAVE RECIEVED MOST OF THE INFO AND AFEW ADDITIONAL DETAILS ABOUT WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED FOR FUTURE REGULATIONS REGARDING COUGAR MANAGEMENT IN AB.
HOWEVER IF YOU READ THE POST ......IT SAYS "SOME MEMBERS" OF THE ABTHA.
THIS I KNOW BECAUSE I WAS TOLD THIS BY THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO I KNOW WERE MEMBERS AT THAT TIME....!!!!
I DO NOT SEE NOR DID I STATE ANYWHERE IN THE POST THAT THE ABTHA APPROVED OR WAS APART OF IT....SO IT IS IN PERSPECTIVE, I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY WERE ALSO MEMBERS OF ANOTHER CLUB OR NOT...
YOU MUST KNOW THE NAME OF THIS CLUB AND THE COMMENTS MADE AS WELL ????

AFTER GETTING THE INFORMATION ON THE MEETING I AGREE THERE ARE GOING TO BE ALOT OF CHANGES, I HAVE DELT WITH CHANGE IN LION HUNTING FOR 34 YRS HERE IN ALBERTA AS WELL AS MANY OTHER DURISTICTIONS SO IT'S NO BIG SHOCK TO ME....I JUST WANT A SAY IN WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED AND TO BE KEPT INFORMED WHEN MEETINGS THAT EFFECT MY BUSINESS AND RECREATIONAL HUNTING ARE BEING HELD...
NOT MONTHS AFTER THE FACT...
I KNOW WE ALL HAVE TO GET TOGETHER AND SUPPORT ONE AND OTHER AND COME TO SOME CONCENSUSS OR AS HOUNDSMEN IN THIS PROVIANCE WE STAND TO LOOSE ALOT !!!!