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I'm no cat hunter but I was wondering, do y'all ever catch them on the ground or do they always tree? If you do, can a pack of dogs handle them pretty easy, or is it just bad for the dogs? I've been on a few boars I wish would have treed! Just curious, we have a few down here, but no big trees!

About once a year I get a nasty cat that don't want to tree. it is usually the result of guys taking it too far training their pups. they jump and jump and jump a poor cat till it doesn't even feel safe in a tree. I have seen these cats go crazy on the dogs, and if the dogs want they can end it in about 30 seconds. it is very unfortunate. I treed a big tom two years ago that refused to climb a tree, he tore up evry dog I own and tried to tear me up. I don't know why this cat had no fear of dog or man, but he was crazy. He had been freshly collared by the lion study guy and I don't know if that guy tramatized him or what? We killed him the next year. only reason we knew it was him is he had the same collar and he would stand next to a perfectly good tree and fight the dogs with no intention of climbing. this behavior is however very rare in lions.

Yes, there are some cases where a lion gets caught on the ground. Sometimes, as previously stated, it's just the attitude of the lion. There are other times that the dogs just flat catch the lion on the ground. Most of the time it is because the lion keeps jumping out. As for the dogs being able to handle a lion on the ground, that depends entirely on the pack of dogs, and the number of dogs. If you have only one or two dogs that will jump on a lion, or all of the dogs don't go at the same time, the lion definately has the advantage. If the dogs all go together and some turn loose and come and go in the fight, things can be bad for the dogs that stay engaged. If, however, all of the dogs fight TOGETHER, and you have several dogs in the fight, a lion gasses fairly easy, and the fight doesn't result in too much vet care. Hounds are extremely resiliant, as well as dang tough. I see these situations as gang warfare, and I want my gang to be prepared.

Depends on the country you hunt. If your hunting in country with lots of rocky bluffs your just as likely to catch them in the bluffs as a tree. Most of the bluffed lions the dogs cant get close enough to get hurt. Seasoned lion dogs also know not to get to close.

Ive seen where 4-6 dogs can handle a young lion or female on the ground. But never have seen or heard of a pack being able to handle 120-130lb and larger toms.

In my experience lions that live in the out skirts or towns and have delt with town dogs before are much more likely to stop and fight. Still its not common. Learn behavior I think.

A few years ago a friend of mine caught a nice tom. The lion back up to the base of a tree and instead of treeing, he stood his ground. And put up one hell of a fight he did!

The lion study that Harley Shaw did years ago on the Spider Ranch close to Prescott, Az., was started using Dale Lee and his dogs to catch and collar the lions for the study. The first three or four lions that were caught, the dogs caught them on the ground and stretched them. I don't know anything about the lions except they were no longer potential study lions. Harley had to quit using Dale, and went to George Gosswick. George helped Harley with the remainder of the study. All of this is what fueled Harley's desire to get his own pack of dogs - just a little trivia, but just because folks don't talk, doesn't mean it doesn't happen at times. It does, however, take a united pack of dogs.

I have unfortunately caught several lions and bobcats on the ground. I don't like it at all. One of the reasons I hunt cats is the dog/cats contact is alot less likely than some of the other game. It actually makes me sick to my stomach. Call me a wuss if you want. Last season I had six bobcats stop in culverts under the road. One thing I am happy about is with the GPS I know exactly were they are. I am glad to pick up dogs instead of having a fight. It does happen but luckily most of the fights are short lived. I watched dogs grab onto a 150 lbs lion and fight. Within a few seconds the lion jumped out away from the dogs and went up a tree. Bobcats can be pretty tough too. Not trying to sell people on GPS but with its use I was able to stay alot closer to dogs. The closer I stay the less likely I am to have to deal with long fights and that sort of bad luck. I am happy to say my yard is full of old retired or soon to be retired cat dogs. I haven't lost one in the woods yet.

The few that I have caught on the ground have resulted in ultra wicked infections that took a long time to clear.

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I agree with pretty much everything stated on this topic so far. I have seen two young dogs pull a mature tom out of a tree and finish him before the guy with the tag could even pick his jaw up off the ground. it is rare and sounds a little far fetched, but it happens. I think mine is the result of the way I train my pups. I start them very young on barn lions and coons. I always let the dogs finish it. I like this because it will give young dogs a quick start and fuels a desire in them that would take a couple years any other way. the thing I don't like about it is once they know they can kill game themselves they always try to do it. I have had lots of injuries and dead dogs and lions as a result. so I would say I agree that I would take a dog that bays em up over a dog that pulls hair, but only my old wise dogs have figured this concept out. I have a nine month old pup that has to clamp on to every lion I catch wether it be in the tree or on the ground. I hope she lives long enough to figure it out.

Ha! Ha! got a kick out of you Benny They had to quit Dale Lee and go to Georgie Goswick.

I know you know about as many of them old timer as I do and we all have caught and had our dogs stretch a lion or two. But if old Dale was alive and read what you said I can just hear him let out a sqwaul and slap his chaps and say: see I told you them dogs of mine was too rough for them there lions, you better get some of them tender mouthed Prescott dogs for this Zoo study! LOL!

Shoot I have seen some of these big old Goswick/ Layser crossed pups less than a year jerk a two year old bear right of his feet and hold him down stretchin till he pissed straight up a regular lion ain't got a chance. Let's just hope they tree so we can get them pretty pictures.

Now Mike, I'm surely not dissing those Goswick dogs. I used to have some of those, and would absolutely love to have some more. I believe that there are times when pack dynamics change, and some dogs, when put together, behave differently than they might with different team mates. I too can hear Dale guffawing. That's the kind of stories he lived for. I also believe that it was just a little bit of bad timing for Dale's dogs to be a part of that study. I am, however, glad to entertain you.

So what do you guys do when your dogs stretch a lion? Do you only hunt with a tag and stay out of pursuit areas? I realize that if your dogs stretch a lion that a tag can go on it, but if you don't have a tag what then? if a guy stretches a lion in this state and walks off and leaves it I would think they could have felony charge filed if caught? Just curious..........

ike

Felony charges seem a little steep, and how would "they" prosecute the dogs? As for someone tagging the lion, while reading the regs, I would believe that "taking by hound" is not covered.

Ike wrote:So what do you guys do when your dogs stretch a lion? Do you only hunt with a tag and stay out of pursuit areas? I realize that if your dogs stretch a lion that a tag can go on it, but if you don't have a tag what then? if a guy stretches a lion in this state and walks off and leaves it I would think they could have felony charge filed if caught? Just curious..........

ike

you are probably right ike, but what would you do? I think anybody that says their dogs have never done it needs to follow their dogs a little closer. I have been lucky to have a tagger every time it has happened to me, but what if I didn't? I don't know what the hell I would do? I guess either turn myself in and beg for mercy or dig dig dig and run run run. neither one sounds very fun to me. Wish I had a way to cure a dog of this. most all my experiances and stories I have heard it's the young dogs that do it. most of my old dogs keep a small amount of space.

houndnem wrote: I guess either turn myself in and beg for mercy or dig dig dig and run run run. neither one sounds very fun to me. Wish I had a way to cure a dog of this. most all my experiances and stories I have heard it's the young dogs that do it. most of my old dogs keep a small amount of space.

Things may well happen and I missed it, and I won't argue that point. I did catch a young adult lion for DWR with three dogs, lion in a hole fighting, pulled two of my dogs off and tried to leash them back, lion and last dog came out of the hole fighting, I jerked the last dog off that lion to save it with two game wardens watching, the lion was gonna die anyway but not by my dogs with law enforcement watching if I could prevent it, the lion was winded and had all three dogs been left loose in the same situation it would not have made it.

Yes, I'd call the law and beg forgiveness and that's why I question running large packs of dogs; I also question this post! My point was walking away from a scene like that and having the law catch you in this state would result in extra charges and maybe even wanton and destruction of protected wildlife. Anyway, I'd hate to make that call but I would never walk away......

ike