BigGameHoundsmen.com

A few of my friends and I have been talking about how we might improve on our bloodlines and where we might find the secret ingredients.That has led to alot of discussion and for me a question.....how much more can you expect from your pack.
What do you guys expect from your dogs before you loose them and how does it shake out in the end.
What do you think your catch percentage should be on bears,pigs or whatever it is you hunt?Would you think 50% outrageous?Is 100% a dream?
I really can't say I know what guys expect but do know that I want to catch every critter I let go on.

Very hard question to answer. So many different situations and such, so one never knows. It sounds from your prose that you find a track and then you let your dog down and loose them on the trail. This in it's self is a positive for your type of hunting because you cut out the necessity for a strike dog. ( These may be among the hardest dogs to find.) What I mean by this is you take your dog hunting but it is his job to find the trail get it lined out and then trail it to a sucessful ending. Not taking anything away from those who hunt the tracks for their dogs and then let the dogs take over and catch the game, it is however another element that many of us due to style and terrain must demand from our dogs.

I would say if you are catching 50% of the tracks you find that your dogs can run you are doing about average. Some may do a little better than that but it is all bases on conditions and terrain. I usully demanded about 75% ON TRACKS I FOUND AND i KNEW WERE CATCHABLE AND THE HOUNDS CONFIRMED IT. Too many variables to do much better than 8 out of 10 but when you add them all up and you get some doubles you might do that well or better. I sure would not settle for anything less than 50%.

I expect to catch every track I start, but that does not happen. The hunter is a big part, being able to train and breed a dog to get what you want from them. When I still guided bear hunts the best pack of bear dogs that I raised out of 28 starts I treed or killed on the ground 24 bears, two I did not jump, one I lost the dogs and one I bayed and ran 26 hours before they quit. Several of the bears I caught the dogs treed after being on them over 24 hours. That was back in the days of no tracking collars. I hunt bobcats now I hit tracks on dry ground that I don't jump. In good to fair scent condition if my dogs are able to move a tract I expect to catch it on the ground or tree it, very seldom does a cat get away that they jump. If you don't expect perfection from your dogs you will not get it. Dewey

Wow Mike,seriously 50% on tracks you considered to be catchable?
I gotta say I would expect to catch nearly all of these if I consided them to be "catchable".
Having said that I know that things can happen to ruin the best of plans so 100% is not realistic.
Here in Southern Alberta the wind is a force to be aware of and can blow your track out in a hurry leaving you standing there with no place but home to go.Even at that I must say that having your hunt spoiled in this way is not a common occurance and depending on how stubborn a hunter is and what kind of team you are playing on you can dig up the track get things finished up.
Even tracks that are struck or rigged without snow should finish at a much higher percentage in my opinion especially on lions in this country,bears can be tougher of course but still I gotta agree with Dewey on this one.

The first year dad and I moved here none of our dogs were over 2.

The first day the season started dad looked over at me and said "If we catch 5 bear with these dogs I will be happy"

We treed 29 bear with those dogs and even had a bear get ripped from the tree by the dogs. All these bears are on video.

I think sometimes people expect too little of their dogs. It is our job to train them, teach them what is right and wrong, and it is up to them to go out, and show us that they did learn. Hey, kinda like raising kids

As far as finding hidden ingredients to improve bloodlines, who really knows! The best cross dad and I made was a completely blind one between 2 Plotts. Same cross has been made twice after that, and every pup from those three litters have been phenomenal.

I don't think it is impossible to catch 100% of the stuff you dump on. Some people dump on fresher tracks increasing the odds of catching it. Depends on where you hunt and where the dogs were raised and hunted most of their lives. Take dogs from areas with no rock, no cliff, and no much obstacles, tae them to La Sal UT, and you might not catch anything but kennel cough

Way too much involved in races and breedings to be able to have all the answers. Some crosses are amazing, some are duds. Weather 1, both, or neither of the parents are good dogs, doesn't really determine how the pups are going to be, it helps improve their chances of getting bred, but it is up to much more then that to make the connections right.

But that's why we all love this crazy sport

Of course Eric I am not talking stictly of bear I am talking all tree species pursued. And then one must look at the terrain and obstacles to be considered. I can turn out or strike a ten minute old lion track and still not catch that lion. Yes sad I know but true when you are dealing in a country that has towering bluffs dropping of 50 feet shelves where a lion simply flies thru them and dogs are hemmed up for hours. Even the usually easy to catch jovial black bear in canyon and rim country and be a bastard to say the least. I have had weeks where I went over 100 percent on bear. Yes I mean i struck or rigged one and caught two or more, but then get in the right country and you get your butt handed to you. I think many guys hunt the same old country where they have done well so much they get at ease with what is going to happen. That is great but when you get a call and you don't have that luxury and it's catch as catch can and them wild critters will even them odds up on you a bit.


On the dirt hunting lions from cold unknown strike to catch I would jump up and down and shoot sparks out my ass for 50%. LOL!

I have to say, terrain plays a big part in success. I expect my dogs on bear to stay over the 80% catch rate on a rigged bear. Even at that I am looking to improve each outing. On Lion its no different, if conditions are good I expect 100% if the snow is melting out and the sidehills baring off the success rate drops rapidly, that is when you have to help your dogs along. There is a few swamp area where I hunt bear that are just about impassible for the dogs and often get there blown out of the race when the bear dives into that crap. A smart bear will circle around and cross these areas and in no time learns that this is the place to make up time on the dogs. My catch rate in there is about 1/3 and I don't see it getting better unless I have a few Jack Russels to throw in the mix.

That being said amigo and I have heard it concurred. You got some mighty fine hunting, Doug. Jack Russells ye gads man them barking little bastards. It time for some rye hound dog man! LOL!

Mike if you figure out how to get even close to that 50% mark in the dirt lion gig, please let the rest of us know as some of us would love to see the sparks shooting ---- from a safe distance of course!
I have a cousin that told me once that he would like to go lion hunting with me, but he wanted to go when we were going to catch a lion. I told him that if I knew when that was, I would only go on those days too. I would also save thousands on fuel. that was about 25 years ago and he still hasn't gone with me.

Benny,

Like I said no shitter Tex Ritter! That is the way dirt hunting goes.

Why hell, as man would have to be a plain fool to keep this nonsense up!

A fool such as I: AKA MJ Leonard about 10 seconds ago,

How much more is there? Now that’s a question that I think will always be asked and perhaps never be answered. I would like to get a hundred percent catch rate with every track my dogs start, but that is far more than what I get so to expect it from them is only a dream, now you got to understand I am talking about lion and cat hunting and not in the snow with the knowledge of when the track was made, but on bare ground free casting and going on blind strikes at all times of the morning and hoping that the dogs can get enough time and distance on the track to put an end to it, add a few wild non broke pups to give some excitement to your day and you have hound hunting at it’s best. LOL now I know a houndsmen that I feel will go down as one of the greats that hunts bear and lion both, but bear are his passion he breeds his own strain of walker dog and has for over forty years now he puts up more bear in a years time then most will ever catch in their lifetime yet he is always looking for that little something to add to what he has. So go figure. If you stop looking for that edge that makes the difference then you have stopped thinking outside box and will always be bested by those striving ahead with their breeding program. Even baby steps are steps.

Sourdough

I think if we caught 100% of what we chased the challenge would go away and the fun right along with it.

i caught 36 out of 40 bears i ran last season some went into country you just cant get to to many cliffs ,if i caught every one ,where would the challange be / if you dont understand that hound hunting is a fifty fifty game quit now ,hunting with dogs is a thinking mans game .in saying that ,im allways looking for a better dog if your not quit. i started competion coon hunting just for a new challange ,hunted her two made her a grand nite .now ill try another pup .always challange yourself to improve jim www.fallriverwalker.com

The country and stlye of hunting has alot to do with percentages.

Lions in the snow i catch 90% of what i start
Lions in the dirt i catch 10-20%
With the pack of hounds I have now I catch 30-40% of the lions I start in the dirt. But thats because they are not very cold nosed so if they can start it its a fresh track so there start to catch ratio is higher. The dogs I use to have i would catch 10-20% of the tracks because they were colder nosed. They could start older tracks. I caught higher overall numbers of lions with the colder nosed dogs but started tracks to finishing track ratio was lower

One mountain range i hunt bears on i catch 80-90%
Another mountain range im lucky if I catch 50%

I dont believe there is a "wonder breed" of dogs out there. There are lines of dogs and individuals that excell better than others at certain traits like cold trailing or track speed, grit or rigging. I think its just a matter of getting a good line for the way a guy hunts and going through and getting the best ones out of that line

Yup.I hear all that and agree.
We have been talking about this subject here as well and have come up with the same general thoughts as the rest of you,terrain and conditions are definately a limiting factor as much so as the fact that the hunter can do alot to increase his odds.
Hunting familiar country adds alot to ones ability to tree game and the ability to sort through the tracks and offer up a good catch opportunity to those potlickers is priceless.
A good ground crew for those who like that kind of hunting is absolutely critical as well and can increase your percentage greatly as long as all your wing men are capable.
Hunting alone is a limiting factor of huge proportion in some ways (you can only cover so much ground alone)and a plus in others.
All that being said I guess the original question still is,"how much more is there).
Seems to me that back in the early days of my hound hunting career finding the next step up the ladder was pretty easy as I had ,often times,no place else to go.
Once you start figuring this game out the room to improve gets tighter and tighter so the improvements come harder and harder.
I still do agree that you have to expect the most from your dogs and you need to keep looking for the ultimate in your program to stay ahead in this game.That means keeping the young stuff rolling through,moving those that fall short and ever breeding selectively to keep em coming,it never ends.