BigGameHoundsmen.com

I understand that the commission is meeting and planning to sign and institute a huge increase in the number of harvest permits in nearly every section of New Mexico. They have no study basis for this and even in units that have not even come close to the total sustainable harvest limits or those that have been closed prematurely by nimrods killing a bunch of females they are driving up the quotas.

Why you ask? 1. Outfitters pressure greasing palms
2. Ranching wah wahing about some dead calf they
think a lion might have killed but no confirmation
most of the time.
3. Deer and elk hunters boo hooing about some lion
killing their trophy before they could blow a hole in
with their 300 Ultra Mag and drag it home to show
Momma and the boys they still got the stuff.

I wonder where all the public forums were on this increase?

well if you live in any of the snow belt you can kiss lion hunting good bye for the future.


Wildlife Managment? ain't it a beautiful thing?????

Sounds more like Wildlife Mismanagement to me....

Man Mike why dont you send some of those commisioners to Ca. We have the opposite problem. They want to shut hunting down here. When we do finally convince them to make a change PETA threatens Law Suits and Ballot measures so Fish and Game and the hunters all get scaired and back down. Wish we could trade problems.

Whoa Whoa there Mike. There are studies and there is going to be public meetings to discuss the new proposals of quotas.

There has been studies of Lion Densities going on for the last -3-4 yrs in southern NM. They is a study that started this summer in Central NM, and working starting one in Northern NM as well.

There will be public meeting all over the state. There is one in Ruidoso on July 27, cloudcroft, 26 and Carlsbad(not sure of the date). There will be meetings in each corner of the state. Call you loacal office to find out the where's and when

You will also be able to post comments NM Game and Fish Website probably starting next week.

Everybody should take the time to make their voice heard. Once the propsed reg is posted read and make your own opinion.

For bears quotas there is a much needed increase in quotas. We are about 4 years into the quota mangement scheme and our bear pop is going through the roof. One zone is going to be closed before the season even starts and its loaded with bears.

There are increases in the lion quotas too. I can speak for the southern zones and say the lion population can handle the increase quotas fine. I cant speak for the northern zones cuz I dont hunt up there but there will be some increase's too

We alway hear guys complaining that the Gov managent agencies dont stand up for hunters enough. Well the NM game and Fish is taking a huge stand on trying to increase the quotas for the hunters and is going to receive huge opposition from the anti's.

I feel these quota increase overall are a good thing. Make sure you show your support if you agree. The more emails and positive public comments the more the department will have a chance at getting this accomplished

There is a 30 day public comment period starting next week. The increase wont be voted on by the commission until mid September.

Contact your commissioners to to voice your opinions

Mike.
Seriously, a cry baby rancher comment. So what your saying is that you do not hunt on any ranchers land and only do the public land? If it is not for a lot of landowners allowing hunters on thier land, the public land populations would be decimated. Not all ranchers have hounds, in fact many do not own hounds are totally ok as long as your dogs are truely broke off thier livestock. I have a deep background in biology and understand that game management is a delicate and serious set of rules that must balance science with politics.

Steven,

No I hunt on ranches plenty and growing up on a ranch I learned early to appreciate a good rancher, and I think you know that.

As far as studying wildlife managment you can do that till the hair on your head falls out and the seat of your britches is are shiny but if you apply it with a broad brush without reflection of differing areas and circumstances you are fooling yourself.

Big Mike, I understand your position and respect your opinion. I have yet to run into you on your mule up in this corner of the state but hope to some day.

I really can see where Mike is coming from. What you guys in the central and southern parts of the state don't deal with is the huge effect of frequent fresh snows on the cat population. Up here in the northern mountains a quota increase would kill us. What will happen is that with increased quotas even in other lion zones hunters will take advantage of our snow and kill kill kill its not that hard for them to claim they killed the lion off another zone. Game and fish is spread way too thin up here.

BINGO!

Going thru the same thing here in Wyoming and it can mainly be attributed to #2 on your list. Doesn't matter what the science says, like anything else, bottom line is money. Like in any livestock state, game management goes out the window and state agencies become puppets for the livestock producers. In several areas around here they doubled the quota and the main area I hunt is now UNLIMITED quota, with season open year round. And it's not because theres an abundance of lions.

Actually the increase are not the result of livestock producers, but more of a result of what has been happening with attacks in the past couple years. This year we have had about 5 bear attacks on people and in the last two years we have had 3 lion attacks one which was fatal. And more of a result of all the what the NM game and Fish is seeing in the feild. For the last month just about every game warden in the state has been doing nothing but trapping bears, relocating bears and killing bears. Wouldnt it be better for hunters to do the harvesting instead of Game Wardens?

I hear your concerns. Here's is another way to look at it Zone A which is units 2,7 will increase 13 lions on the total mortality and increase 6 females on the sub quota.

With the increase what gets killed there will likely be reported in the correct zone because the zone isnt going to fill and close as quick as in the past. The early closing has caused your problem of the guys "bobcat" hunting once the quotas filled. The other northern units have increased enough where i dont think guys are going to feel the need to lie about which zone a lion is killed in. Which hopefully will give us a more correct harvest report.

Units 13,17 will inrease by 20 lions which if filled will defintitely decrease the lion population which is the intent. Those units are some of my favorites to hunt, so it will hurt my lion hunting too. But on the flip side the NM Game and Fish has been paying a trapper around $2500 per lion, to kill lions in the sheep area of unit 13. i would much rather see the sport hunters given a chance to harvest these lions instead of a paid trapper yes it will hurt my hunting but in a bigger picture i like the idea of the increase

If they want to get the bear situation figured out they need to open the spring season again. Instead of throwing a bunch of hound hunters in the woods with the elk hunters. Or in my case kicking the bear hunters out of the woods when the elk hunters are out. I understand their reasoning for doing this is to control group hunting elk but man it sucks for us houndsmen. We have been over this time and time again and it hasn't helped before so it probably will not help this time.

The lion areas I hunt in were shut down early last year because of snow falling in places other than where I was hunting. Very few lions were killed in our GMU's. Maybe smaller zones might help? I don't know but Im glad they are doing something about it. I say Raise em.

Joe,

I always liked spring bear hunting too. When them bears get their feet toughened up a bit and get shit out they can flat lays some smack on you. Lean mean running machines!

Mike L,
I know that you have some roots in the ranch industry but your post just seemed like it was leaning on the wrong side. You know damn well if the ranchers really wanted to get rid of the lion problem they would resort to other measures so asking the game and fish is a really good idea that they are trying to tame the lion issue and not completely get rid of it.. My family has been ranching for generaltions.
Stephen

Stephen,

Must have had hit a nerve. LOL!

First off I would like to say I have several pairs of Wranglers probably older than you so don't lecture me on how deep you are in biology or ranching. Just becasue you grow up around ranchers doesn't make you one that takes time. I have seen a whole lot of generation raised ranch kids that couldn't spot a sick cow till three days after she was dead. And education takes application to become worthy and that takes time to.

Now if you would like to know where I lean pick yourself up a copy of Harley Shaw's book ( Soul Among Lions). Read from about page 69 thru 73 and you will get a pretty good idea. Here is a Biologist that has spent decades applying what he leared and tempering it with on the spot facts.


Go out there and saddle up and go catch a hundred or maybe two hundred dry ground lions. Look around while you are out there and then come back and lecture.


Oh by the way setting on a hill dressed in camo with a Fox Pro and and a long range rifle don't make one a predator expert.


Sorry son but you asked for it.