BigGameHoundsmen.com

Pegleg's post on the topic of noteworthy houndsmen reminded me of a time in my younger days, when I was first trying to figure this lion hunting with dogs out. Let me say at this point, before this goes any farther -- I do not believe that my exploits will EVER compare to others that have really done something with their dogs!

I had a dog that was hell on wheels when it came to trailing barn cats in the middle of the summer, in sand washes around Phoenix. Cuervo could run 'em down with a 20 or 30 minute head start. I'm pretty sure that I was completely retarded way back then, as there was a guy that had a standing offer for Cuervo for $5000.00! That was absolutely unheard of! Now, this guy hadn't offered me that, he had offered the guy that owned the dog before me that. In fact, no one but the guy that owned Cuervo two guys back, and me, even knew what ever happened to Cuervo. The guy that actually owned Cuervo had become the Payson town drunk. Cuervo still had my buddie's collar on him, so every time that his owner got put in jail for public intoxication, my buddy would get a call that his dog was in the Payson pound. Well, we discussed it, and the next time this happened he went to Payson and picked up Cuervo. He gave Cuervo to me, said that he couldn't see him getting run over in town trying to live off the streets.

Well old Cuervo definately knew way more than me about how to trail and catch varmints! I never did learn to trust, or even rely on that old hound.

A good freind of mine had 8000 head of sheep. He had some summer country between Ashfork and Seligman, south of I 40. Those sheep were getting mucked out pretty regularly by lions. Felipe had herders that stayed with the sheep during the days, but would go to camp at night. The herders had been seeing a lion every day for 4 or 5 days. It was in the exact same place every day, and Felipe wanted me to take Cuervo and go with him to the ranch. When we got there the next morning early, I had Cuervo on a leash, and we walked all over that country looking around. We found several older, cleaned up antelope that I figured had fallen victim to the lion. Cuervo kept wanting to open, and keeping his level of excitement in check was getting harder and harder. When we got to the place that the herders had been seeing the lion, Cuervo went berzerk! There was a ewe that had been killed and was mostly consumed by the lion. Felipe kept telling me to turn Cuervo loose, but I didn't trust him. I just knew that all he wanted to do was chase antelope. Felipe kept hollering at me, but I wouldn't budge. That evening Felipe was obviously put out with me. He said that if I was going to catch a lion with a dog, that I was going to have to let the dog work.

He had a government trapper come in that afternoon and set some traps on that ewe. The next morning there was a very mad lion in that trap!

To this day, I have never forgotten that time that I didn't know anything myself, and I didn't trust my dog that knew way more than me. Some of the best lessons seem to be the toughest ones to swallow!

So let's hear from someone that screwed up like me in the beginning.

Well Benny you would think when a person gets as old as you he would figure a thing or two out? Ha! Ha!
Ta Ta Ta Turn er loose!!!!

I dang sure don't keep my dogs tethered now!

now that's hardly a bad way to start out. I've made a fool out of myself much worse then that.
Hears one on to much trust in a hound.
I got a new dog that was about eighteen months old and had been hunted some but not a whole lot. had a little cur blood and was a pretty smart thinking hound. I had been running this dog with a few good cat dogs in a wash that had a good population of bobcats and she was quick to catch on. in that area the cats don't have a lot of options once they use up time and run out of running they have to get real inventive with options.

This day the track went the same as most. Hounds were fanned out working through the brush when one started wiggling and huffing. we trailed around in a round about way through the scattered brush. Reached a pile of quail feathers under a bush right next to the flood plain that is clear and flat. where all the hounds started bawling and running along a dirt bluff. this went on for a mile or so and then they swung out onto the flat. at this point they are running good and angled over towards the drop off into the creek bed. now there are a few trees here worth climbing if your a cat. this isn't always their choice and sometimes they catch them in the creek bed or sneaking out in a feeder wash coming in on the other side. once in a great while one will get frazzled and try the run back across the flat to the hills on the other side. not often though.
This time I'm setting there on my horse looking into the wash sure it's in there and that new pup gets down in there and starts raising hell in a blind spot against the bank and is squalling like it has it's claws in her. The old dogs wont even look in there and are casting around on the flat. I'm sure the cats in the bottom and the pup is sure so i hop of leash the older dogs up since they don't want to go down and help. slide down the bank cussing my sorry ass dogs.
I kinda sidle up to the dirt clump this dog is squalling at and she gets brave runs in all hell brakes loose and out comes the dog slinging blood. I get excited I know it's got to be a good un!
draw my trusty pistol jump around the corner so I can get a good shot and out of this under cut boil a dozen pissed javelina popping their jaws like a machine gun nest. I fell all over my self getting outta there.
I climbed back up the wash cussing my sorry ass dogs, just like I had on the way down. I get to the top apologize to the dogs up there and turn them loose and start back across the flat. get about sixty yards out and the dogs jump a little sow cat squatted down in a low spot with not a bit of cover in a hundred yards? she didn't have much of a head start but made the best of it and got to the hills and into a mesquite that from horse back I could see right over the top of.
I let her hook the dogs for a while and wallowed in my shame and decided maybe a super star pup tends to look that way the most when it's got a good solid pack pushing it along.
I figured while the dogs may have earned their cat I sure hadn't and it was just dumb luck we jumped her back up. so left her there spitting at us.

great stories! thanks for taking the time to type them up

i really ruined an english female one time. she was an excellent bear dog. everything you would wish for in one. treed two bears by herself the season before my story. i thought enough of her to raise puppies out of her. so i thought to myself i should coon hunt her during her pregnancy to keep her toned up and in shape to possibly make labor easier on her. so i coon hunted her til the last two weeks of gestation and man was she a nice coonhound.treeing coons in front of grand nite champions getting split by herself with the coon and holding pressure. i was like dang she's just as good on coon as bear. so time went on raised the puppies and statred getting her back in shape. well kill season rolled around and i began to hunt her. opening week we turned on a good track and the bear was jumped. all the sudden i heard her break out of the pack. thought well she's run head long into another one. well she ended up treeing all by herself in the most conviencing way so here i go at a break neck speed getting to my true bear dog with her own bear treed and gonna do the deed all by myself with just my dog. something i have never done. i got closer and slowed down to a creep slipping from tree to tree like a navy seal. well needless to say when i popped around the first tree within sight of her i throwed the rifle up in excitment to give ol fuzzy lead poisoning and what i found was a 15 pound coon sitting in the whole in his den. oh i was furious. scolded her real good and went on thinking that well it must have been so hot she couldn't resist. anyway over the next two weeks she made this a habit and after 2 weeks of over excitment and sudden dissappointment i had to admit i ruined my prize bear dog that i had turned down selling for ridiculous amounts and ended up giving her to a 15 year old kid for a coon dog. so there is my story and learned to never ever show my bear dogs a coon again.

That is one of the main reasons I steer clear of some breeding. it is really nice to have most of a hounds traits bred into it when it hits the ground in some ways. however most folks over do that and end up with a hound that is so genetically programmed to do one thing you'll never get the whole package hound from that breeding. I have a real dislike for treeing idiots. I understand if you breed hard enough for trailing you have to get at least the same amount of desire to tree to equal it out. but if you breed to Catch game you can by pass a little of these traits because that catch desire will fill in.
Then you have those guys who swear only breed that game catching trait and all is well, that leads to those really great hounds/ when they aren't the trashiest bastards in the state! if you are free casting your hounds you need a real level mix of genes or plenty of electricity and that doesn't always work. I like a thinking hound that can learn fast and figure things out on the go. yeah genetics are nice building blocks but that is all they should ever be is your foundation.
babbling hounds are one most folks agree on as it is real easy to see and does the most damage. open on track over done to the extent all that hound can do is bay at scent particles til he blows them out of the country is obvious to everyone. Some traits don't seem so destructive at first.
As handlers we need to really look at OUR traits and do what we can to strengthen the weak spots and cull the bad habits, this will let us do the most with those traits our hounds bring to the hunt.
It is always easier to find faults in other peoples methods then your own, even when your faults are the only ones you can do much about.
a well balanced hound isn't something i want to mess up, to rare to find and I hope I can do justice to them as they come through my yard. the problem is every area/hunter has a different idea of what a well balanced hound should be and that raises issues that should be handled differently in the sport. more discussion and openness about traits would help everyone. but we our houndsmen and can't let that happen so let those hounds get spoiled and enjoy your time hunting them.

I had some great bear dogs going for me until I got talked into hunting with another guys so called broke dogs. I made the mistake of beleiving that his dogs were broke on deer, fox and coyotes. After a month of hunting with him and chasing down dogs every time, I was beginning to wonder what the hell is going on; I've never had this problem. Finally we made it to a tree and there was a fox. That was the end of my hunting with other peoples dogs. It took me 3 months to get my dogs back on bear and lion. Never again would I feed my dogs into another dogs race.

I don't know if you other hunters have experienced this, but I have found that if you take a young dog and run it only on one animal and it never has a chance to follow a trashy dog, it winds up being broke as you might call it, even though you never broke the dog to begin with.

Hey Benny good story, so now tell me how I can break Bella off of rock chucks? I finally got her off deer and she has no interest in elk but it seems that is all she wants to hunt now is rock chucks now that they are out. Puma trailed her first herd of elk the other day. Trailed them like an old pro. Opened up and the whole nine yards. Didn't catch them cause I cut her off at the pass.....literally She is a hunting fool and independent...... Let me tell you. At first she was Ozzy's shadow, but today she went off and hunted all on her own. Got ledged up yesterday following Ozzy and was MIA for 3 hours. Had to send Bella in to do the rescue op. Today while I was out looking for her the wind was blowing like it does here in Wyoming and couldn't hear her so I walked back and forth on the ridge calling for her. I snagged my foot on a branch and fell hard hitting my knee on a well placed rock. While I was sitting there fighting back tears of pain I heard her crying lost trailing back. She is getting a garmin collar on her. from now on. I have no doubt in my mind that she will be my number 2 dog real soon. Now about Bella and the rock chucks HELP lol

Didnt screw the dogs up but here it goes.... Turned the pups out on their 5th cat in their lives last year. They trailed it for a half mile or so and treed. Went down there and no cat. Started circling to help the dogs and they took off. I followed and the only tracks i could find were deer. So i run back to truck and get tri-tronics. Didnt have a garmin so i lost them. We drove around with the kids crying about how their dogs were gonna get run over if we didnt find them. Wind picked up and i coulnt hear them. The beep beep said they were close so i started out trying to tone them back. After that didnt work i started frying their asses. I cut their tracks several times and could only find deer tracks but it was fall so no snow. Finally got my female back to road but not the male. Was driving in the bottom of a canyon and my daughter says,i heard old dan. so i get out and start down to him...wouldnt you know it a big old tom in a tree and my dogs voice is gone from treein for over 5 hours and i shocked him and toned him so much his collar was dead. Thank god. Biggest lesson i've learned to trust your dogs.

Good stories folks.

Posse, this isn't your first rodeo! Don't worry too much about that trashy girl until she sees a lion or two. Those rock chucks won't take her out of the country, and she has the drive and ENERGY to be after something - anything. If you didn't have at least ONE hound out of those three pups giving you fits, you wouldn't know for sure that they were all hounds! KEEP GOING Show them some lions, they will all have some of that much lacking and needed confidence, and the training will get easier and easier. You just need to stop, take a breath, and remember back when you had to get started the very first time around. You are in almost that exact same place right now. KEEP GOING, KEEP GOING, KEEP GOING.

Benny, show them a lion or two. That's funny Lions in the southern Big Horns are few and far between. Wishing I was back up in Sheridan right now. I have been hunting these dogs 3 to 5 days a week in what should be good lion country. Least it used to be. I have put some serious miles on these dogs and all I find is old scratches with chalky scat and kills of bleached bones. I have seen one lion track since january and it was a day old and blown in so bad. Still we tried to give it hell. Guess my dogs are just dying to run anything they can find. Rock chucks, elk, whatever. So I guess I have screwed up a whole pack cause I live in a lionless area. Think I may go camp somewhere else in the Big Horns this summer where I can find a lion for them. It's the least I can do for them, being they are all I have.

I just want to clarify my prior statement was not intended to sound like I'm upset with BennyG. Far from it. Benny has been great to me. I was just telling him my frustration I have been having lately. I guess in some eyes I'm just a silly girl trying to hunt her dogs and not having a whole lot of success lately. Least I am still out there hunting and giving the dogs a chance to tree something..... even if it is a rock chuck.

well, we've all heard how benny talks about his hounds. so I guess unless you cuss them pretty good he wouldn't recognize them if you were talking sweet about them he might figure you got rid of them and got some more red dogs. I've got pups trashing on squirrels every minute of the day around here and it's getting a bit tiresome. Horrible part is they may as well be running rock chucks since we don't have tree squirrels or trees to tree them in if we did. I just have to take in the blessings of the off season, like everyone else and start in on squirrel dumplings for Sunday I guess. they do real well the first few days with out hunting but after that they just progressively act out more.
heard there was a fine old recipe for sundry inedibles, being traded in certain new mexico hunting camps. may crawl over there and beg for the famous "prayre recipe"
momma always stood firm by one rule. Don't kill nothing you or those dogs don't plan on eating! since my pups seem to think we've landed on hard times they've been depositing these choice morsels on my porch.
on a more serious note. I'm sure your hounds will be better in many ways from all the miles your putting on them. and find great relief in getting to trail a stinky ol lion, tough stuff they had to cut their teeth on.
the first pack of dogs I tried to train single handed had to break out a picture book to verify what they were supposed to be trailing the first half of their lives.
at least your hounds have the advantage of a good pedigree behind them! you know benny will heckle you until they get a few caught . sounds like success and motivation, all in one package to me..