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Just wondering what dogs people are having the best luck with on dry ground lion hunting papered dogs or grade dogs and what are the bloodlines on them or whose dogs are they out of? I have had my best luck with grade dogs and most of them are out of Jeff Allen's old dogs and I have one that is out of a cameron female and a Dean Robinson bred male dog that is doing real good.

i would have to say line grade dog but thats just my 1 1/4 cents have yet to tree a lion just coons

I think that you can get good dogs from both it is just easier and cheaper to bred a grade dog. it takes alot of time and money to hunt with dogs in the bred to find one that has the traits one is looking for. not all crosses work though and even if it dose work it dont mean that they will end up being a reproducer of what they are. where as with papers you know where your dog came from and with a little home work you can see where the traits your dog has came from. then you can start looking for some thing with the triats you would like to add to your line. and end up with a higher sucess rate.

Ihave always had better luck with grade dogs to be honest, Seems like whenever i have spent good money on a papered dog or horse, something happens to it. So I'll stick to my mutts. i don't do shows though. My show for points is out in the hills, if they catch me a lion then thats a champion in my book!!

You guys talk like they are different breeds. Just because someone has kept records of their dogs does not make them any better or worse. If you had a paper trail on most of the grade dogs, you would see they went back to papered dogs somewhere.
Does it make the dogs better or worse to have a paper trail? Who knows but to say one is better than the other is pretty crazy.
I feel you have a better chance of getting pups to turn out, out of something you know has turned out from many generations and can line breed those qualities into a pup. But there is no gaurentee of anything.
I have papered dogs and non papered dogs but even my non papered dogs have at least a 3 generation pedigree I have kept on them, and most can be traced back many more than that. So are they papered too? Or are you only concidering a dog with papers that have a UKC stamp on it to be papered? And why would any kind of paper make the dog better or worse? It is a paper, and a paper, last time I checked, does not hunt, the dog does. A paper could help you breed for better pups, but then agian it may not. It is nice to see a dog that is a proven reproducer show up many times in a pedigree, gives you a little more hope for those pups.

x2 paco. All our dogs came from the same place in the beginning. Papers dont take away or give talent. Also where a dog is born dont mean nothing. I can go to the east coast and get just as cold nosed dogs as i can in arizona, or NM. It all boils down to the quality of the breeder and the caliber of dogs he is working with and the traits being bred for.

papers don't tree game. papers only matter to coon hunters. its been proven to me personaly time and time again by coon hunters

Cheat, I will disagree with you, I also know many others that care about their dogs and what direction they are going with them , will disagree with you also. Papers are only a road map of where your dog has come from and a plan of where you want to go.
The thing that I find funny is, it is always the guys with grade dogs trying to make the aurguement, never the other way around. Do the grade dog guys have something to prove? It always seems like they are trying to prove their dogs to the guys that have Papered dogs (UKC). I feel there is no difference. If a man has taken the time and done his homework and bred the dogs from proven stock and a long line of proven dogs, maybe throw in some line breeding, wheather they are UKC reg or grade, your out come should be good or better than what you have. That is the goal anyway.
Papers are only a family tree showing us where the dog has come from, It has nothing to do with his performace. If the dog is a cull it should be culled wheather it be a UKC dog or a grade dog.

well said Devin.

Twist, Devin doesn't have a clue....have you seen his dogs?

It has taken me a long time to become as fat, ugly and stupid as i have. It wasn't all there in the making from the genes i was given at birth.... So i ask myself....Self? How did you become so fat, ugly and stupid.... and myself says to me.... it takes alot of hard work to become this fat, ugly and stupid.

So heres is my rocket scientist opinion on all of this "debating".... Go hunting. Find the dogs that work for you and hunt the hell out of them. That is what will get you a good dog or prove that you have a bad one, not debating a grade or papered dog.

There are good and bad dogs in papered and grade if that is how you wanna categorize them. Until you put them in the woods who knows what they are...and your idea of a good dog and mine turns into another discussion of who is right and who is wrong. So as we always say.. To each their own..... as long as your happy feeding them thats all that matters.

Take care, jason

poser wrote:Twist, Devin doesn't have a clue....have you seen his dogs?

Andy, if you saw mine you would shoot them all and donate one of those high rolling Topper Again dogs to me. Just cuz you would feel bad for me.

What I was wondering are what dogs are working best for other people out there? I wasn't saying grade dogs are better than papered dog or the other way around. Just interested in whats working for you

You werent saying it but you know how people on here are, they gotta give $100 worth instead of their 2 cents...... I don't worry about papers, of course i don't show my dogs either, my show is in the mountains at the tree or the rocks, i rather see the dog work then see the papers, plus, how many papers are actually legit anymore!!!

Kind of hard to beat DNA.