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A lot of talk about a big-game dogs treeing ability but little is spoken of locating. Just becasue a hound runs a trail and the quarry goes up a tree and the dog barks at it does not make that dog a true tree dog. I know that may sound a little controversial to some but the development of the tree dog breeds was based on the premise that a dog must by scent locate the treed animal and tree bark on faith when they cannot see it.
I know that many times and in a lot of country where big game cougars, bears and such are run many times they are obvious in the tree and stick out like a sore thumb. Now it is great to have a dog that will set down lock his eyes on the game and bark until you get there, but that alone does not make the hound a true locating tree dog. Bbocat and coon hunters rely on dogs that will locate by scent and with faith in their noses will stick to the tree and bark until their master comes. You say well I don't need a hound that will do that because we can alwasy see the lion or bear. Well unless you hunt on flat treeless desert or tundra you may be mistaken. Even in barren mountain ranges with few tree game such as lion will climb rocks and hide and unless you have a dog that locates by scent you will leave wondering what happened to the disappearing lion. Bear often if expereinced will walk and fight or bluff off dogs till they get to their favorite area and then make a hard run or circle and seem to disappear, as they climb the biggest tree they can find and many times go way up where they are hard to see. I have heard many hunter pose the question why did that bear go by acres of trees to pick out the biggest tree in the canyon? Well this was taught at an early age by mother bear when danger approached get to a home tree, and many times you will find these trees scarred by bear climbing them many times. Dog if they do not locate on scent may be off on a far hillside bawling on a vapor trail drifting off a tree where the bear is and never settle and locate solid if conditions are not right.
Many times hunters especially lion and bobcat hunters gather their dogs and leave while the cat is treed or hidden somewhere watching them becasue they don't have a true powerful locating tree dog.

So don't just think because a dog barks at game in a tree he can see he or she is a complete locating tree dog or will pass this trait on to their offsrpring. You can teach some treeing but you can't do much on the true locate ability. it is either there or it is not.


JMO

Very well said Mike, the old coon hunter is coming out of you! LOL

I agree from my little experience that locating is an issue for bobcats. I think I've had two cats treed that I couldn't find due to not so good locating. But I think mostly because I have a young pack. My hot nosed walker x plott treed a cat back in december I think but she isn't a good tree or locate dog usually. But this cat she was treed hard by winding the cat in a tree nearby but not on any specific tree. I looked for 2 hours for out tracks and checking trees. Never found the cat. But that's hounding!

Very well said Mike. I have hunted lion and bear years ago and it is different than treeing cats. Here is my take. I never encourage a young dog to tree, if it is not a locating tree dog it is not breeding stock in most cases, there are exceptions. To me the best tree dogs on bobcat are the best track dogs, they know that the track ended and look for a tree. The young dogs that are hard tree dogs at a young age are treeing with other dogs and not locating, most of those will get culled. A good tree dog on cats tree because they know where the cat is or will tree when they know that cat went up but are not sure where it is. I get 4 or 5 trees every year where the dogs are treed, usually not hard, when I get there I will find the cat a tree or two off from the one the dogs are treed on. Are these locating tree dogs yes, they knew the cat did not leave. The hard coon hound bred tree dogs will false tree a lot in our country and have little use for being top bobcat dogs. There is good dogs in all breeds but I feel part running dogs are more track smart and can make better tree dogs they just don't say much. Like all dogs you have to have the ones that work for you in your type of hunting. Dewey

Hi Dewey excellent post. The one thing I will add, it takes longer for those running dogs to tree than a lot of hunters are willing give allow them. Al

Al it is good to see you on here. Hope all is well. Yes you are right. I don't get to concern about a young dog treeing on bobcats until they are two years old. A lot of people want them to be treeing by one year old, in the long run most of them don't make cats dogs for me other people like them. You can have to many hikes without a cat in the tree. They work great to cross with running dogs though. Dewey

So, is it possible to make them become a better locator? Also, if the dog maybe isn't a good natural "locating" tree-dog, won't seeing lots of big game in trees eventually help it to understand that if the scent leads to the tree that even if they can't see it, it's there? For instance, I had a couple dogs that weren't treeing real hard for the last couple seasons, just enough to get me to the tree and I didn't have GPS...they had never had any game shot out to them and my theory was that if we shot a few out to them, they'd make the connection and become more confident that if the track ends at the tree, then the game was up and they could settle in. We shot two out to them this season and each one of them is doing a much better job of treeing more consistantly...it seems that my experiment has worked because they seem more confident whether they can see the game or not. Would you guys agree or disagree that you can make a dog a better locator?

nothing like putting the hounds on a cold track and hear them cold trail then make the jump then hear them locate and tree. that is why we do it.

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Newby yes I agree hunting dogs on biggame certainly helps bring out the treeing in most dogs. When I hunted coon, bear, & bobcat it was .much easier to have good tree dogs However, locating tough bobcat trees can sometime require lots of experience on bobcat. Having said this I owned two registered females that were born locators, they were not always accurate, but not tree happy. I have never owned a dog that didn/t false tree some. I believe any dog that does not false tree some is leaving some cats setting. Just my experience. I can tolerate a dog that does a lot of looking after a lose then settles in and trees lots of cats have been found that way. If too many of those be empty, time to press the tri-tronic or kick butt. Al - jmo

There is no doubt that some hounds are born locators. This type of hound is rare indeed and I have only had a few that I would say were born locators. I don’t work with my hounds in the area of treeing and haven’t since I was a young man. Treeing is something a person can train or I would rather say condition a hound to do. Those types of hounds that have to be worked with I fill never are true tree dogs or good locators and do cause problems in a pack. The type of locators I am talking about are un-real and do not false tree and are not pulled off the game when others false tree. There are those that are born and others that learn on their own and become great tree dogs in their own right, but are never as accurate as a true locator. We can condition our hounds to do a lot of things and hunt the hide off their feet to reinforce what we have taught them, but in the end the dog was just an average hound with an owner that was determined to make something out of them. Something else to ponder…

sourdough

Thanks Sourdough, read your post twice, good to read about others experience. I have owned hounds a long time, never owned a tree dog quite that good. However to quote Dewey Walton, one cannot know what you have never experienced. Yes I have made dogs by refusing to give up on them & I have gave up to soon, gave some away that hunters with more patience turned to nice hounds. Thanks again Al Baldwin PS can/t think of any dogs in my area that have been that that good on bobcat. What was the dogs bloodline?

I am guilty of not giving a hound much of a chance at learning to locate and tree and for that reason have gotten rid of them and they may have come on at a later age. I like the ones that come by it naturally this is just my perfernace. I have had my dogs locate and be off a tree or two or be in a certain area locate barking but not be on any one tree they new the track had stopped and were not leaving a certain area, I do not falt a dog for this and beleive they have still done thier job. Andy

very good read mike!!! i mainly coonhunt but have big game hunted enough to get myself in trouble. LOL. and i know exactly what your talking about. the dang good accurate locating treedogs that can also run a rough track are what i like. very tough to come by!!!

Al, you do raise a good point. That is there is a definite distinction between big game hounds and bobcat hounds. I wouldn’t call those “born locators” I have had bobcat hounds and they would more than likely be eating dust behind a seasoned pack of bobcat hounds yet when it comes to locating treed game whether bobcat or lion in big timber they had it. I run to types of hounds in my pack and like the diversity as their style though not the same do complement each other. I have pure bred walkers as well as some very trail minded high tans that are not what some would call track straddlers, but they do follow on track and don’t deviate from it very far. Whereas my walkers are more drifting type of hounds that really if seasoned on bobcat I think would do quite well until it came to locating although decent tree dog’s they do tend to get treey in a hard lose and I think you know what I am talking about when I say hard lose. A great locator does not fall prey to that they check and either make it through the loss or locate the tree. The two females you talked about sound like some really nice hounds and I would say that from what little bit I know about hunting bobcat is those two trait that is great locators and hard pressure trail hounds are conflicting traits and if you could have both in one hound you would really have something. How were those hounds bred? On another note Al, it's nice to see you on this site. I don’t know you, but can see from your posts that you come with a lot of dog time behind you.

sourdough