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got 5 year old black and tan and just training him is it hopeless just wonder if it is to late for him or if i should get him a good hokme and start over. i have a 2 year old that is awsome but cant seem to get threw the older one runs everything but what i want mainly deer. i try not to be to hard on em until i tree a few cats so i dont ruin there desire to hunt am i going about this wrong ??

Up there on the Yellostone there are many more deer than other things to run so you are in a pickle. forget the 5 year old and concentrate your efforts on the 2 year old. I would say give the 5 year old away for sombodies pet and go see andy Jenson in colombus and get a arm lock on him and make him sell you a pup out of one of his next litters. Or if you are set on a black and tan we have some great members on this forum from Montana that run some outstanding black and tan big game dogs.

Tim, I won't argue with Mike, however when I got into this game I had a B&T that was 4 or 5 before he saw his first lion. I too wondered if it was too late. It wasn't for him. I ended up with a few good friends that caught a few cats for me to follow along with and for me to show him what was the right game and what wasn't. He caught on but on the other hand, he never turned into the dog he could have been if I'd started him as a pup.

In life I value learning what NOT TO do as much as I value learning what TO do. I apply that principle to my dogs as well. If you don't break him off deer, you will never catch a lion, period. Think about a stock dog for a minute......they learn not to chase horses at my house before they ever learn to handle cattle. If they don't they will probably never get the chance to chase a cow.

I had a female hound that I got when she was 8 months and she damn near ruined my other dogs by chasing deer. I was trying not to shock her off the wrong game before she saw the right game. I ruined EVERY track I turned her into before I finally had enough and broke her off deer and moose. Once I accomplished that she became quite a good lion dog(at least by my standards).

On a completely dofferent note, I have totally different styles of dogs now that I run together(B&T and some walkers). Like I said, totally different styles of dogs in how they hunt. I don't know if I recommend that or not. I mean that I would probably consider getting the same "style" of dog as your pup is if you are going to get rid of your older dog. On the other hand, mabey the different "styles" of dogs compliment each other and kind of fill in the blanks for the opposing "style" of dog that they are hunting with. Hopefully someone with a little more experience could chime in here and help us both out.

I guess what I'm saying is each and every scenerio is different and weigh all your options before you jump to any rash decisions.

Scott

Tim. The first question I would ask myself is. Do I like the dog? I have found if I like a dog I will put a lot more effort into him/ her. If I dont like the dog it will more than likely sit on the chain, while the other dogs go. I have had the same ideas as you about not shocking my dogs off of tash until I get them confident in the correct game. This method has worked for me. I have made damn sure to keep them on correct game until I am confident in their desire to run the game I want. I start with a completely controlled environment, roll cage to get them interested. From there if I am hunting lion I find a track and walk it out to the point where the dog is about to pull me off my feet. In ths scenario I have never had a dog break off the track to trash. Once a dog has caught a couple, I head out to the deer wintering grounds. For bear I never put an inexperienced dog on the box to rig. I also try to hunt with someone else ( seperate vehicles) If my dogs strike I will drive ahead, and wait fot the other guy to drive through it if his dogs blow up, I know we have a legitament strike. I only turn inexperienced dogs down on a track I know is hot. From my experience a cold track is the best way to get an inexperienced dog to trash, and pull other dogs into it.
I have a good friend that keeps an e-collar on his dogs everytime he takes them out, if they trash he burns them no matter the age or the experience level of the dog. This guy catches a lot of bear, and has some pretty straight dogs. I am starting to agree with his method, more and more.
These are some of my experiences. Hope they help. Tim Hunt.

T.Hunt wrote:Tim. The first question I would ask myself is. Do I like the dog? I have found if I like a dog I will put a lot more effort into him/ her. If I dont like the dog it will more than likely sit on the chain, while the other dogs go. I have had the same ideas as you about not shocking my dogs off of tash until I get them confident in the correct game. This method has worked for me. I have made damn sure to keep them on correct game until I am confident in their desire to run the game I want. I start with a completely controlled environment, roll cage to get them interested. From there if I am hunting lion I find a track and walk it out to the point where the dog is about to pull me off my feet. In ths scenario I have never had a dog break off the track to trash. Once a dog has caught a couple, I head out to the deer wintering grounds. For bear I never put an inexperienced dog on the box to rig. I also try to hunt with someone else ( seperate vehicles) If my dogs strike I will drive ahead, and wait fot the other guy to drive through it if his dogs blow up, I know we have a legitament strike. I only turn inexperienced dogs down on a track I know is hot. From my experience a cold track is the best way to get an inexperienced dog to trash, and pull other dogs into it.
I have a good friend that keeps an e-collar on his dogs everytime he takes them out, if they trash he burns them no matter the age or the experience level of the dog. This guy catches a lot of bear, and has some pretty straight dogs. I am starting to agree with his method, more and more.
These are some of my experiences. Hope they help. Tim Hunt.

thank you guys for all the advice and yea there is a crazy mount of deer hear

sheimer wrote:Tim, I won't argue with Mike, however when I got into this game I had a B&T that was 4 or 5 before he saw his first lion. I too wondered if it was too late. It wasn't for him. I ended up with a few good friends that caught a few cats for me to follow along with and for me to show him what was the right game and what wasn't. He caught on but on the other hand, he never turned into the dog he could have been if I'd started him as a pup.

In life I value learning what NOT TO do as much as I value learning what TO do. I apply that principle to my dogs as well. If you don't break him off deer, you will never catch a lion, period. Think about a stock dog for a minute......they learn not to chase horses at my house before they ever learn to handle cattle. If they don't they will probably never get the chance to chase a cow.

I had a female hound that I got when she was 8 months and she damn near ruined my other dogs by chasing deer. I was trying not to shock her off the wrong game before she saw the right game. I ruined EVERY track I turned her into before I finally had enough and broke her off deer and moose. Once I accomplished that she became quite a good lion dog(at least by my standards).

On a completely dofferent note, I have totally different styles of dogs now that I run together(B&T and some walkers). Like I said, totally different styles of dogs in how they hunt. I don't know if I recommend that or not. I mean that I would probably consider getting the same "style" of dog as your pup is if you are going to get rid of your older dog. On the other hand, mabey the different "styles" of dogs compliment each other and kind of fill in the blanks for the opposing "style" of dog that they are hunting with. Hopefully someone with a little more experience could chime in here and help us both out.

I guess what I'm saying is each and every scenerio is different and weigh all your options before you jump to any rash decisions.

Scott

at
what do ya'll think of plotts with the black n tan i thought that would be a good combo my buddy has one plott and some cameron blues and that seems to work for him. i know its a diffrent mix just kinda experementing right now. never had the time to hunt and train with the dogs like i do now

T HUNT YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY ON THE MONEY. IF MORE FOLKS FOLLOWED YOUR ADVICE THERE WOULD BE ALOT LESS TRASH BURNING HOUNDS. THE NEXT THING THAT COMES INTO PLAY IS THE HUNTERS WILLINGNESS OR ABILITY TO KNOW AND DEAL WITH A HOUND THAT IS MESSING UP. I THINK SOME OF IT IS IGNORANCE AND SOME OF IT IS EGO, A BAD COMBINATION FOR A HOUNDSMAN.

If they are running deer they will run cats I had one like that beginning of the season ...I knew she had plenty of drive so I got some advice from a fellow houndsman that has run dogs for thirty years and he told me to over break her so she will hardly start down a track once she was like this I turned my other straight dog out I and she took the track and then I took my other dog and started hand tracking down the race and it didn't take but two or three of those trees and the dog was running cats and will now run right by a herd of dear...this is what really helped me.