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White Cloud Treeing walkers
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:22 am
by popcorn501
Can someone give me the deal on this bloodline of treeing walkers?I just got a pup today that is supose to be of the whitecloud bloodline.Thanks
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:23 am
by Ankle Express
Bobby somebody Suttles maybe had acquired that breed from someone around virginia. Bobby had them in S.Carolina for years. Thinking he may have sold out to somebody else now possibly inthe southwest? Pm Mike Lronard if he don't find this I recall he knows this one.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:42 pm
by mike martell
i live in oregon been with the white cloud dogs long enough to know what works and what don't.to me this strain is tops but a few east coast breeders have outcrossed this line and really messed it up. they are white cloud in name only. p.m. me i will tell you what strain trees what strain trails only and what strain trails and trees .the right strain of white cloud dogs have the ability to please an old hard driving plott hunter of the past... me!!! believe me these dogs got grit! i don't advertise dogs nor do my buddies. unlike alot of people we are proving ours in the field.i'm sure i can help you out mike
see tod ya someone woud have the answer for ya/ ya ot it lis
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:55 pm
by cecil j.
mike martell wrote:i live in oregon been with the white cloud dogs long enough to know what works and what don't.to me this strain is tops but a few east coast breeders have outcrossed this line and really messed it up. they are white cloud in name only. p.m. me i will tell you what strain trees what strain trails only and what strain trails and trees .the right strain of white cloud dogs have the ability to please an old hard driving plott hunter of the past... me!!! believe me these dogs got grit! i don't advertise dogs nor do my buddies. unlike alot of people we are proving ours in the field.i'm sure i can help you out mike
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:45 am
by DWD58
Clyde and Gurvis Mullins from Coeburn virginia started this strain in the 1970s . The two brothers owned two coal mines in the area. They were a tall, leggy, rough haired , looking line of Walker dogs that worked well on big game. They had a partner that was out in Arizona , I think it was maybe Prescot, Arizona, but I cant recall his name. They went under two Kennel names, Cumberland Mountain Kennels, and White Cloud Kennels, but they were the same dogs. Clyde was looking at a loaf of White Cloud bread in his kitchen, when he came up with the name white Cloud for his kennel. When The two brothers died, Bobby Lyles of South Carolina bought most of the kennel from their widows and carried on the White Cloud line for many years. Bobby hog and bear hunted and trained alot of hog and bear dogs for people.
Bobby sold his kennel out and moved around 7 years or so ago. He was working for a tire company, moving the factory to Mexico. Between this, and his wife being very sick, he didnt have time for the hounds, so he put them up for sale. He had a full page ad in the full cry and sold most of them to a guy in Florida , one on the coast of North Carolina, and one female to a dog trader in south east Tenn. Last I heard, Bobby was living in Illinois and didnt own a dog at all. There are still a few of them out in the southwest , due to the Arizona connection, but as far as I know , the original partner out there is dead.
white cloud line
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:33 pm
by cecil j.
DWD58 wrote:Clyde and Gurvis Mullins from Coeburn virginia started this strain in the 1970s . The two brothers owned two coal mines in the area. They were a tall, leggy, rough haired , looking line of Walker dogs that worked well on big game. They had a partner that was out in Arizona , I think it was maybe Prescot, Arizona, but I cant recall his name. They went under two Kennel names, Cumberland Mountain Kennels, and White Cloud Kennels, but they were the same dogs. Clyde was looking at a loaf of White Cloud bread in his kitchen, when he came up with the name white Cloud for his kennel. When The two brothers died, Bobby Lyles of South Carolina bought most of the kennel from their widows and carried on the White Cloud line for many years. Bobby hog and bear hunted and trained alot of hog and bear dogs for people.
Bobby sold his kennel out and moved around 7 years or so ago. He was working for a tire company, moving the factory to Mexico. Between this, and his wife being very sick, he didnt have time for the hounds, so he put them up for sale. He had a full page ad in the full cry and sold most of them to a guy in Florida , one on the coast of North Carolina, and one female to a dog trader in south east Tenn. Last I heard, Bobby was living in Illinois and didnt own a dog at all. There are still a few of them out in the southwest , due to the Arizona connection, but as far as I know , the original partner out there is dead.
I run acrost em in theHunters Horn some yrs ago a stud add nice looken runnen Walker dog and again in 03-04 at the big open flee market dog traders day weekend at Rippley Miss. not far from Menphuse Tn. oh 100 miles maby/ they was used for mostly deer dogsthere and traded,alot of the dogs run deer that go through that flee market/not the majority of em but enoughf of em.
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:31 pm
by popcorn501
Thanks for the info guys.
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:37 pm
by mike martell
DWD. YOU NAILED IT THE GUYS IN ARIZONA WERE THE MARTINN CLEM FAMILY.I JUST RECENTLY AQUIRED PEDIGREES THAT MARTIN CLEMS WIFE KEPT TRACK OF FOR MARTIN. WHAT A TREASURE TROVE OF W.C. DOG HISTORY. I LINE BREED THE ORIGINAL W.C. FAMILY ,CAREFUL NOT TO STRAY FAR FROM THIS ORIGINAL FAMILY OF DOGS.I STAY AWAY FROM OUT CROSSES AS I BELIEVE THIS ONLY WEAKENS THE BLOOD.AS SELECT CROSSES ARE MADE THEY ARE NOT SOLD . JUST HUNTED , AS THEY PROVE OUT ONLY THEN ARE THEY ADVANCED FOR FUTURE BREEDING. I WILL NOT CROSS A YOUNG DOG UNTIL IT HAS RUN THREE SEASONS. AS WELL AS PROVEN ITSELF ON BIGGAME. THAT IS WHY YOU WILL NEVER SEE MY ADS FOR DOGS ANYPLACE. I WORK WITH A CLOSE FRIEND AND GUIDE IN CANADA. ONE GUIDE ON THE TEJON RANCH IN CALIF. ANOTHER IN N. CALIF. THAT WORKS FOR U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE AND MYSELY. THEY DON'T CUT HERE ITS OVER!!!
tigon ranch
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:53 pm
by cecil j.
mike martell wrote:DWD. YOU NAILED IT THE GUYS IN ARIZONA WERE THE MARTINN CLEM FAMILY.I JUST RECENTLY AQUIRED PEDIGREES THAT MARTIN CLEMS WIFE KEPT TRACK OF FOR MARTIN. WHAT A TREASURE TROVE OF W.C. DOG HISTORY. I LINE BREED THE ORIGINAL W.C. FAMILY ,CAREFUL NOT TO STRAY FAR FROM THIS ORIGINAL FAMILY OF DOGS.I STAY AWAY FROM OUT CROSSES AS I BELIEVE THIS ONLY WEAKENS THE BLOOD.AS SELECT CROSSES ARE MADE THEY ARE NOT SOLD . JUST HUNTED , AS THEY PROVE OUT ONLY THEN ARE THEY ADVANCED FOR FUTURE BREEDING. I WILL NOT CROSS A YOUNG DOG UNTIL IT HAS RUN THREE SEASONS. AS WELL AS PROVEN ITSELF ON BIGGAME. THAT IS WHY YOU WILL NEVER SEE MY ADS FOR DOGS ANYPLACE. I WORK WITH A CLOSE FRIEND AND GUIDE IN CANADA. ONE GUIDE ON THE TEJON RANCH IN CALIF. ANOTHER IN N. CALIF. THAT WORKS FOR U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE AND MYSELY. THEY DON'T CUT HERE ITS OVER!!!
I`ve not hunted that ranch its too far south for me,but I`ve truck route drove by it many times when driveing semi loads and its a good big hill ranch allright! Wered ya hunt in Northern Ca. that my mtn range too cut my teeth on lion ?! Up by Stoneyford & Elk Creek ares .
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:48 pm
by mike martell
cecil the tejon is where my buddy guides what a ranch . it is in the tehachapi mtns. he runs the w.c strain there. pigs galore , too bad hounds aren't used for them. (at least not top cat dogs ...ha!)they get some huge walking mean bears there. the other one grew up on the ranch and went to work for u.s fish and wildlife in clearlake oaks west of williams calif. he only hunts the hounds. lucky young man !!! my other buddy is just north of spokane wa. in christina lake b.c. canada . paradise truly for a houndsman. me i live in central oregon get to hunt 6 mos. a year for bobs or coon , so i leave here every chance i get to hunt with those still fortunate enough to still be able to hunt both bear and lion. i'm kinda stuck here in oregon or i would leave here in a minute! actually the ban was the best thing to happen to me, as i got out of oregon and met some truly fine houndsmen!!
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:24 pm
by popcorn501
Well the guy i got the pup from is supose to find out some of the names in the W.C. side of the ped. for me so maybe some of you guys that know of this bloodline can fill me in a little better.Thanks again to everyone that replyed to my question about this bloodline
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:36 pm
by DWD58
Mike...You got a good line of dogs there in that White Cloiud line. You are smart to keep them close and not to outcross, as a couple of outcrosses and you can totally loose what you have. I hunted with several of them back in the 1980s. i live and hunt not too far from where the dogs orginated from. They were very fast dogs and were very gritty and seemed to make natural cat dogs. The only faults I ever saw, were they were a little weak in the treeing department and they were hard to break off of deer and they could be pretty ill on the tree. I didnt know how much they had changed over the years, but I havent seen one in several years accept a female that a dog trader had in Tenn. and he was crossing her with a male that was no relation to her at all. He didnt know what he had and really didnt seem to care even after I tried to explain it to him, but I guess thats the way it goes.
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:05 am
by Mike Leonard
Friend Mike M, thanks for all the help and wonderful information as well as the rest of you folks.
Gotta love them ole spotted dogs!
Whist! Look for em Moe!
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:32 am
by mike martell
MIKE L. THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS . DWD I WILL TELL YOU GOOD AND BAD ON THIS LINE ANY OUT CROSSES OUT AND THESE DOGS DON'T TREE. AS FAR AS CLEAN THE CLAIM OF WELDON HOPMAN IS TRUE THESE DOGS ARE AS STRAIGHT AS DOGS COME THE FATHER OF MY FEMALES IN CANADA HAS NEVER HAD A SHOCK COLLAR ON HIM. WELDONS FIRST W.C. DOGS WERE FROM ROGER HOLLAND. HIS BOONE BOY DOG WAS THE SAME WAY. WELDON HAS BRED SOME BAWLY AND NANCE INTO HIS LINE OVER THE YEARS. I WON'T. THE TREE FIGHTING COMES FROM GURVIS MULLINS DOGS HE TOLD MY PARTNER IN CANADA THAT HE HAD SEVERAL HE PUT DOWN BECAUSE THEY WERE ALIGATORS AT THE TREE. AS YOU KNOW THIS WAS YEARS AGO AS GURVIS IS LONG GONE. MINE HAVE NEVER TRASHED BUT THEY ARE NO STRANGERS TO THE TRI TRONICS. THRU THE HOLLAND BROTHERS I GOT ALL THE PEDIGREES FROM THE CLEM FAMILY DATING BACK TO 1927 AS COMPLETE AS YOU CAN GET. MRS. CLEM KNEW MORE THAN MODERN DAY U.K.C. I RECIEVED THESE SHE DID ON THE OLD ROLL UP CURTAINS ALL DONE BY HAND, DOGS LIKE RED LIQUOR THE RUNNING DOG SOME BLUETICK DOGS AND OF COURSE INDIANA BOONE BOY A BUNCH AS WELL AS FORESTER AND MOTLEY . I HAVE FROM 1927 TO PRESENT DAY. WHEN YOU STICK WITH THE SAME FAMILY OF DOGS THEY TREE. HARD. THEY ARE BIG GAME BRED, YOU CAN'T MAN HANDLE THEM AS THEY WILL BITE YOU. BUT THEY WILL ALSO BITE A BEAR. MINE HANDLE LIKE A DREAM. SO FAR I SHOW THEM THE GAME AND THEY CATCH IT. MY GOAL IS TO HAVE A GOOD ALL AROUND PLEASURE DOGS TO HUNT THESE ARE AS CLOSE AS I HAVE COME IN 30 PLUS YEARS OF HUNTING.
Williams Ca. is on I-5 North not far from me
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:41 pm
by cecil j.
mike martell wrote:MIKE L. THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS . DWD I WILL TELL YOU GOOD AND BAD ON THIS LINE ANY OUT CROSSES OUT AND THESE DOGS DON'T TREE. AS FAR AS CLEAN THE CLAIM OF WELDON HOPMAN IS TRUE THESE DOGS ARE AS STRAIGHT AS DOGS COME THE FATHER OF MY FEMALES IN CANADA HAS NEVER HAD A SHOCK COLLAR ON HIM. WELDONS FIRST W.C. DOGS WERE FROM ROGER HOLLAND. HIS BOONE BOY DOG WAS THE SAME WAY. WELDON HAS BRED SOME BAWLY AND NANCE INTO HIS LINE OVER THE YEARS. I WON'T. THE TREE FIGHTING COMES FROM GURVIS MULLINS DOGS HE TOLD MY PARTNER IN CANADA THAT HE HAD SEVERAL HE PUT DOWN BECAUSE THEY WERE ALIGATORS AT THE TREE. AS YOU KNOW THIS WAS YEARS AGO AS GURVIS IS LONG GONE. MINE HAVE NEVER TRASHED BUT THEY ARE NO STRANGERS TO THE TRI TRONICS. THRU THE HOLLAND BROTHERS I GOT ALL THE PEDIGREES FROM THE CLEM FAMILY DATING BACK TO 1927 AS COMPLETE AS YOU CAN GET. MRS. CLEM KNEW MORE THAN MODERN DAY U.K.C. I RECIEVED THESE SHE DID ON THE OLD ROLL UP CURTAINS ALL DONE BY HAND, DOGS LIKE RED LIQUOR THE RUNNING DOG SOME BLUETICK DOGS AND OF COURSE INDIANA BOONE BOY A BUNCH AS WELL AS FORESTER AND MOTLEY . I HAVE FROM 1927 TO PRESENT DAY. WHEN YOU STICK WITH THE SAME FAMILY OF DOGS THEY TREE. HARD. THEY ARE BIG GAME BRED, YOU CAN'T MAN HANDLE THEM AS THEY WILL BITE YOU. BUT THEY WILL ALSO BITE A BEAR. MINE HANDLE LIKE A DREAM. SO FAR I SHOW THEM THE GAME AND THEY CATCH IT. MY GOAL IS TO HAVE A GOOD ALL AROUND PLEASURE DOGS TO HUNT THESE ARE AS CLOSE AS I HAVE COME IN 30 PLUS YEARS OF HUNTING.
I grew up in the rice belt area of the middle upper Sacramento Valley and could look acrost the valley some 40 miles and see the coast range and on a good clear day see Snow on SnowMtn. & the Pacific Ridge/ yep I hunted Williams area on the Delevon Wild Life Reffuge for coon and up at Upper Lake & around Lower Lake and the highlands area of Clear Lake Ca. Old Doc Wossum was a vet there and a hound hunter when I was around 30 something he died (a fine man & knew all the hunters yep) !I hunted off Walker ridge and HWY 16/20 a whole lot Mike and especially out of Ladogga and StoneyFord & Elk Creak.