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A lot of talk lately about the man , the country he hunts in, the pop. of the cat in his area, the breed or cross he is running. What about the breeding that goes into the dog that you are running weather it be reg. or grade you buying yours or breeding your ? How deep do you look when picking a pup ? What is the main reason you picked that pup ? The name of the man behind it cause he comes on hear telling how many cats he caught and he is a great hunter ? Or do you look deep into his breeding program the % of pups that come from him that make it as a cat dog and not just a part of the pack ? Alot of talk about the pack that make one good dog when all of them are add up. How many of you are breeding for a one dog cat dog that can find it jump it and tree it ? Don't tell me it can't be done , cause all them stoies of them old dead, lost,childhood dogs would be just that stoies ! If you are breeding your own are you Line breeding from the dogs that have the makings of a cat dog ?? How many of you that are breeding have studied line breeding , inbreeding , outcross breeding and out-breeding ? YES I know that even with the best breeding behind them that not all make it to the top . Yes 6 or 8 dogs on a jump cat is a prettier song then 1 or 2.... But it cost a whole lot more to keep that many. Guess what I'm getting at is Lets talk a little about breeding.

Been breeding the same strain for close to 30 years yes they were bobcat dogs not just dogs. Have culled heavy over them years to get to where I am now. You are 100% right on 1 dog catching cats for the western bobcats, if it cant do it by itsself no sense in feeding it in my eyes. I breed for the total package not always saying I get it but some crosses are just the right ones and once that cross has been proven with a high out come of its offspring I try to make that cross once a year for a few years . Yes I run more than 1 dog on cats now not because I have to because I choose to other wise pretty tough to train an up coming prospect or keep your finish dogs in the game. Not saying this is the way for everyone but has worked for me very well. Andy

This is not intended to offend anyone, just my thoughts for what I like and expect. But if were not breeding to produce a litter with the potential for a 1 dog cat dog, then what are we doing breeding? These dogs are out there with history to show they were not just a 1 hit wonder. Hunters usually keep these dogs and the lines they came from pretty close to home.

I can see a hunter adding dogs to his pack for more depth. But at the heart of the pack their is a superstar. Before building a house you need a solid foundation. Just my thoughts. John.

I no longer have any hounds. When i was hunting I also had a full time job & plus lots to do at home. Never considered my self a real breeder. The majority of the crosses were made using one parent that belonged to another hunter. Often that hound had some blood that had come thru my kennel. Thinking back there were several crosses where I owned both the sire & dam. I did always try to be sure both parents could catch thier own cat, & found out as much as possible about thier lineage. A hound that excells as a rig dog, hard road dog, nice open mouth voice, good track dog, good locator, good nose, solid tree& a good disposition can be hard to find. I have owned a few that came close, but was a little short somewhere. Will say the skinner hound in his prime needed no help & was balanced as anything I ever hunted with. He was not perfect but some days hard to fault. His weakest area was he some times over ran the track on a ducking, dodging cat. I was open minded and if a hound was for sale that suited me I would buy that dog. There is nothing more enjoyable than a large pack on a jumped cat but unless you seperate that pack and hunt a dog alone you can never be sure what you have. Yes I have owned several that caught thier own cats & hunted with numerous owned by others that needed no help to catch some running cats. But none caught every cat they jumped. To each his own and just my experience. Al

Jeff,

Nice Topic. Hope you get some good responses.

Hear is a Thread that covers some of the same ground:

line-bred-bobcat-hounds-t18750.html

We will see where this thread goes...you pose very good questions whose answers COULD save a beginner lots of time, money, and headaches!

im not going to breed my own for now, i got a guy that will give me pups if i ask from a strong cat catching and gritty fast bear catching machines. started from Gregg Anderson blood. I dont want to muddy the water anymore than it is so i will go with a proven line

I am not sure about where I stand here, I want to experience my own breedings some though. Greg anderson who has finely river walkers from Union, Or JT? Just curious.

Gregg Anderson line from Arizona

Always breed for a complete dog. Some will turn out better than others at different parts of catching cats. The standards are different for different people. People just like different kinds of dogs. Bottom line is they have to catch bobcats. Depending on the dogs, the hunter, where they live and how hard they hunt that will give you different beliefs as to what you want in a dog. Large catches are just one thing to look at. A lot of talk is another. Dewey

I can tolerate alot of flaw's in a dog by turning a blind eye to them. If that dog consistently has me and the rest of the dogs looking up into a cat tree. I have learned to look at a dog for what they are, instead of what their not. If a dog has a weak point in their game then the addition of the right dog might fill in this weak area making hunting the dog's more productive, enjoyable or both. No one can tell you what you want, thats up to you. Every mans motivations are different, making them see different qualities in the same type of dogs.

The phrase,( you dont know what you dont know) is used alot on here. It's true. It's what drive's some of us. But this phrase is a two way street and apply's to everyone.

If I see a dog raised and trained by a new or young hunter who's training has probably set the dog back as much as it has moved it forward, but through it all that same dog has learned to catch cats on a regular basis by 3 or 4 years old. Thats a dog I can respect and sure would like to raise and try an entire liter out of that dog someday. Thank you. John.

Well I am sitting here in the Truck waiting for Video clips to upload to Tiny Pic, from this mornings good Race. Story will be ready tomorrow.

So I was rereading this thread. The Author was asking about "Buying" or "Breeding" the Hounds that he wanted to hunt.

Well to have the type and style of Hound that will make you the HAPPIEST.....Breeding wins every time. The joy of watching the product of your mind (in deciding the mating's) grow and develop is only rivaled by watching your Children do the same....the Ole "Fruit of your Loins" thing!

Now the pitfall to this is in the "Hound Evaluation" part of the equation. Spending the time to research the potential sire and damn as to how they will do what you want.....how their sibs have performed....how their parents and their sibs performed....and go one step beyond to the grandparents and their sibs. This takes time and dedication to do, but is well worth the effort.

Now the REAL work begins!

You have whelped a Litter that SHOULD be just what you want, but there are more than you want or can Hunt or feed. Two options reduce the litter(and risk loosing that SPECIAL Hound do to some quirk at a very young age) to what you want or (and this has worked well for Dad for over 40 years with only a couple of Oops) put together a syndicate of like minded Hunters who you can trust to give these pups the exposure they need to fulfill their Genetic potential.

Make some Rules that each member will have to abide by. The 1st being that there can be ONLY one Boss with this operation. One person having the decision making power in what is mated. No outside mating to be done. Valued advise to be welcome....but You who started this have to remain in control. This is not a matter of EGO but practicality as each of us SEE and HEAR things differently so soon "Too many Cooks in the Kitchen" will have the Soup tasting like dishwater.

While not easy this can be a rewarding effort for all Parties and CONSISTANTLY produce Hounds that will "Get-er-Done" in the Style and Manner that you so desire!

Just my thoughts....but this recipe has worked well for Dad and his friends as 4 Packs in 4 Sates caught 6 and Treed 4 more since last Wednesday (and the cost of Hounds to these others was $0.00, just gas and time to train/hunt them).

Some of the better dogs in a litter do not always reproduce as well as siblings who were not as balanced. Recall reading where Tim Ball stated that some of the well know houndsmen critized him for breeding the original Hickory Nut Harry. Ball stated that Harry had littermates whom were better hounds, but history proved that Harry reproduced. Believe he stated that Harry was too close of a track dog to be considered an outstanding competion dog. Remember him saying only way to know how a hound reproduced was by breeding to them. ( providing they came from a family of good hounds) Realize big difference in what he bred for compared to what a cat or fox hunter needed in a hound. But he probably bred as many hounds as anyone and experience should have taught him well. Yes I know those ads he ran was a real turn off, but they worked he sold a lot of pups, ( for big money) and suspect a bunch of them were far from perfect. But some proved to be very good. This ought to fire up a debate. Al--------- C. John with all due respect to Mr. Finney for breeding such fine hounds, I always turned down offers of free hounds that had strings attached as to how I could breed or hunt them. Just never wanted to create hard feelings. I do commend your Dad for breeding such fine hounds and giving them to hunters who will abide by his terms. Thanks AL

Dads dogboy wrote:
We will see where this thread goes...you pose very good questions whose answers COULD save a beginner lots of time, money, and headaches!

^This is the main reason I visit this form because me and my buddy only have young dogs there only 9 months old but they'll run there own tracks and tree and there not of any blood. But living in southeastern Wi we only really get the chance to run coon and coyotes in our area. I guess what I'm trying say is i think it what you put in the dogs and how you feed off there energy. I follow the a piece of advise passed down to me "don't breed anything you wouldn't in your own kennel". So keep it coming cause I'm learning a lot.
Thanks Mitch

Mr. Al,

Never is any offense taken from any of your Posts! We are all Lucky to have you on here!

Any Hunter/wouldbehoundsmen should always make the RIGHT decision for themselves as to what/how they acquire the Hounds that they Hunt. Not having "Strings" attached is a problem for some, others not so much.

But you know when a man does not have a CAT HOUND, he sure will change his mind as to this "Strings" business. That is when TRUE Character in a Man can be exposed. Over the years Someone will call Dad and want help, and if they show to have Game and appear sincere Dad will help.

Most of the time this works out, but sometimes not and there is where the HARD feelings can come to play. This generally happens once the Helped person thinks that they have ENOUGH Cat Hounds to not need Dad anymore, decide that it is THEIR training not the Hounds Genetic potential, see $$$$$ signs appear for the Hounds, or all of the above. Generally about three generations of Hounds later that person is back to where they started.....going through lots of Hounds to get a good one.

Now you wrote about a man's Breeding program, "Realize big difference in what he bred for compared to what a cat or fox hunter needed in a hound. But he probably bred as many hounds as anyone and experience should have taught him well. Yes I know those ads he ran was a real turn off, but they worked he sold a lot of pups, ( for big money) and suspect a bunch of them were far from perfect. But some proved to be very good."

In reality there is not much difference in what a "Breeding Program" should strive for in any manner of Hounds/Dogs, or other livestock for that matter. We are all striving for PERFECTION or as close as we can get to it. It being the PERFECT CAT HOUND in this conversation.

However in your quote above this fellow changed his/her objective from the Perfect Hound to MONEY. There in the Character issue arises.....when numbers rather than Quality is the goal then your GENETIC CONSISTANCY will go to hell!

Now what I was trying to convey to the Author of this Thread and others in the same Boat is that a SOUND BREEDING program is achievable to the Weekend Warrior-backyard Houndsman with a little help from other like minded people.

Folks like Twist, Festus, Melanie, Redwood Hounds, Eric Muff in Canada and several groups in S. Texas; people who do not have a BIG Kennel, just a few Hounds, are doing goods jobs with their Hound breeding Programs. And while an occasional Hound from these programs maybe sold......numbers to sell is not the GOAL of their programs.

Now for some folks Breeding is just not in the cards for them for many reasons. These Folks still have to do their research and work hard to find the Hunter/Houndsman who has Good Hounds that perform in the Style and Manner with which they intend to Hunt. GO see the Hound in Action and the WAY in which the Hound is Handled. Then Invest the money in the Hard work that has preceded.

Then enjoy the hard work and Special times that is Hunting with Hounds!

I was curious. How does one select which males and females to breed without trying it? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I've seen females that would reproduce with one male good but not with another. Just some thoughts. Granted the clays have experience on their side. I have not done any breedings myself, just seen other crosses of other hound packs.