BigGameHoundsmen.com

Just doing this to get every ones personal opinion.

What is your opinion on the $$ value of a well bred big game hound?
I'll start by giving mine...........

Puppy- 8 weeks.......I won't pay more than $300 for a puppy, just to much of a gamble with illness, lemon of the litter and such.

Started dog- 4 months to ?????........showing interest in trailing, barking at a caged critter, but not seen any wild game in a tree, $400-$600.

Well started dog- 6 months to 1 1/2 yrs.....been on a handful or bear and/or lion and is trailing and treeing fairly well. Still wanting to run a deer and/or an elk. Probably not going to catch it's own game at this phase but showing promise. $700-$1000.

Good but not finished-1 yr to 2 yrs......will catch a good snow lion and/or a good hot bear that climbs easily. May not locate the greatest in a tough situation but trees good, may not be 100% trash broke but is getting the idea. $800-$1,500.

Finished dog- A dog that is a finished product, truck to tree, locates great, trees great, trails great, ability to tree most game alone, will rig bear and/or trail a tough dirt lion, and is broke. $2500-$4000.

Rock Star- The real deal, lion and/or bear and/or bobcat.....able to tree a big % of it's game by it's self consistantly. Very few screw ups, great locate and tree dog, stay with a bad bear, catch a high % of bobcats. Tough footed (hunt everyday) $4000-$5000

Again, this is just for fun and these figures are my own personal opinion whether I'm buying or selling.

Let's here your opinion..........

It is my opinion that hounds are often over priced and rarely under priced.I think your model is pretty good but a little too simplistic.There are many variables that it doesn't account for.Each hound has individual strengths and weaknesses that have to be evaluated accordingly.For instance: I am a bear hunter so I value attributes in a dog that lend themselves to eventually becoming a complete bear dog.If I'm looking at a dog that fits into your "good but not finished" category but has little or no desire to be a rig dog at 2yrs old then I would place very little value on that dog.He would be worth virtually nothing to me because he would never mature to be what I want in a dog.Someone else my assign value to him because maybe he would be a decent pack dog or decent on lions but to me he is worth very little.Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The prices you state in my view are accurate for hunting stock however good breeding stock is a different story. How much is it worth for a pair of puppies from a brother/ sister cross keeping only the best out of each litter and repeating brother/ sister crosses for many generations? Well, I would venture to say a lot more than $300 if you could get them at all.
JTG

JTG wrote:The prices you state in my view are accurate for hunting stock however good breeding stock is a different story. How much is it worth for a pair of puppies from a brother/ sister cross keeping only the best out of each litter and repeating brother/ sister crosses for many generations? Well, I would venture to say a lot more than $300 if you could get them at all.
JTG

UNTIL you could PROVE to me that your breeding stock is superior in every way to what you call hunting stock, then it is worth no more or no less.The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

I've always questioned the sale of anything but puppies from anyone other than professional trainers - if the dog is so damn good why are you selling it??

Matt

"UNTIL you could PROVE to me that your breeding stock is superior in every way to what you call hunting stock, then it is worth no more or no less.The proof of the pudding is in the eating."


May I ask how could you prove it?

JTG

JTG wrote:

May I ask how could you prove it?

JTG

That is the question you need to ask yourself.If you are saying that a "breeding stock" pup is worth way more than a $300 "hunting stock" pup then you need a way to prove that.You may be able to replicate what you have but that doesn't make it worth more if what you are producing isn't superior to other hounds.A premium product warrants a premium price but I am not going to take your word for it.If I was to lay out big bucks on a pup then you would have to demonstrate to me that it is worth a lot more.It would really be pretty simple.You claim to be able to replicate what you have making it better as time goes on.If what you have right now is a superior type of hound then all you would have to do is show your dogs in the woods and they would sale themselves.

I believe what JTG is getting at, is someone who just hunts and breeds time to time for hunting stock vs a full time breeder who is looking for genetics consistently in a line. I could be wrong.

Unreal you are right. My last litter I kept three, one went to a guide in Montana for free and the other went to a bobcat hunter in Texas for free and the other two did not make my standards to keep in my breeding program.
Good hounds are lots of work compared to other types of dogs. Other dogs sell for much more so my way of thinking is good hounds are worth far more than $300.
JTG

in my short time of having hounds, all being pups when I got them, it seems that you can pay more with supposed good breeding, or pay less, with no promisses on the outcome, and never know what your going to get untill you put the miles into them, and see how they turn out.. only time tells, and some have it, some don't. Unless I am promisssed money back if the pup does not turn out, I would not spend more than the $300.00. don't care what the breeding is.

I look at it this way if u go an a lion hunt it will cost u 4 to 6 grand for one week for one lion. so why would you sale a finished hound for less then 6000.00 when a good hound will get way more then 1 lion in its life time. not to mention the money a good cat dog can make you on running bobcat alone with fur prices as high as they are it dont take many for the hound to make u some good money. so i think good hunting hounds are way under priced but at the same time u dont have to pay big bucks for a hound to be a super star it just takes lots of time and training.

blueliggs wrote:I look at it this way if u go an a lion hunt it will cost u 4 to 6 grand for one week for one lion. so why would you sale a finished hound for less then 6000.00 when a good hound will get way more then 1 lion in its life time. not to mention the money a good cat dog can make you on running bobcat alone with fur prices as high as they are it dont take many for the hound to make u some good money.

One of the best ways to go broke is to try making money on hounds. I'd hate to check the old balance sheet around these parts for a guy trying to make a living off fur. You'd be better off to dust off the iron and that is even a loser.

blueliggs wrote:so i think good hunting hounds are way under priced but at the same time u dont have to pay big bucks for a hound to be a super star it just takes lots of time and training.

Good hounds aren't under priced they are usually about where they should be. It's the sorry ones that have the premium price tag that skew the entire pricing system.

This is how I view pricing on dogs in WI. This is a normal guy's scale not someone with a pocketfull of cash. These may be off since I haven't bought anything more than puppy/started dog for a dozen years. But what I've seen bought for the most part hasn't been real impressive.

Good finished bear start dog (will probably be in line with a snow lion dog). $2,500 to $4,000. All depends on ability and age. Most guys don't have 6 of these in the box, lucky to have 2.

Solid pack dog with medium nose or started dog, $500 to $1000. Depends on age and toughness on caught game.

Pup, free to $500. All depends on how bad you want one. I like pups to come from guys who aren't trying to make money by having them. Your odds go up if it's just about getting more dogs for themselves to hunt. JMO.

Top knotch WI cat dog, never seen one for sale. Couldn't afford it if it was.

If you're going to breed, it should be for as good or better dogs than you have. No sense in breeding just cause you own a male and a female. Myself, I try to keep dogs with pretty much all the same blood. If I don't have what I want in my kennel , I'll find someone with a standout dog of the same blood. I'm not what you would call a breeder,I have a litter every couple of years. I sell pups usually for $400, and in my opinion they are worth it. I usually want to keep a couple and make sure the rest go to good hard hunters, the money is a bonus. A lot of time, and homework has gone into the breeding of my dogs and I wouldn't be satisfied to have a kennel full of ok dogs and a leader, they all better get it done. Granted there is usually a standout, but most should be better than the average hound imo. I think your scale is pretty close to what I would suggest on prices as well, but then again I don't know much.

I think the prices are about what people are willing to pay. If you have hunted with several times with the seller and the dogs that the pups come out of you should have a good idea as to what you are going to get. If you don't and have not checked out the breeder you will get what you get. There is a lot of dogs that are sold on talk or sold cheep, again you get what you get. I will pay what it takes to get the pup and breeding that I know and want, but I know what I want. If a person is selling pups out of a cross that he wants and is keeping pups for himself you stand a good chance of getting a good pup. Remember all pups do not turn out and they are no perfect dogs. Dewey