BigGameHoundsmen.com

Wyoming Houndsmen Association

The Wyoming Houndsmen Association is comprised of a multifaceted group of sportsmen across the entire state of Wyoming aimed at promoting the merits and ethics of hunting with the use of hounds and other coursing dogs. We support sound data based management of all wildlife and provide a unified voice for the conservation and management of animals such as mountain lions and bobcats. The Association strives to educate others on the ethics and sportsmanship of hound hunting through public awareness and education as well as supporting the long-term perpetuity of all wildlife (big game, trophy game, and furbearer) for the future generations.

We are a newly formed organization and are here to familiarize ourselves with commissioner meetings and game and fish proceedings. We plan on being more vocal and active at upcoming meetings as we get closer to lion season settings and as management issues arise.

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As some of you may know, JD Downer posted an ad on this site advertising a meeting that was held the 21st of last month in Lander, Wyoming. The purpose of the meeting was to generate interest in a new statewide houndsman association and to start laying the foundation for a representative group of likeminded individuals to come together for the protection of our common interests and hound hunting heritage.

My name is Tex Adams and I am from the Gillette area. I have no official capacity with the new association other than being a member and trying to help get this project up and running. My only reason for writing this up now is to continue what has already been started in hopes of gaining more members and backing so that we will have a larger and more unified voice when dealing with the Wyoming Game & Fish on issues that have a direct impact on the houndsmen of this state.

At the initial meeting in Lander, I counted something like 24 people in attendance and that included a couple wives and also three or four representatives from the Game & Fish. Forgive me, but I don't recall their names. I do know that one or two of them were biologists who's work does bring them into direct contact with lions and the issues surrounding them. Anyhow, the 24 or so people who showed up was about double what most were expecting. If I recall, we had every region of the state represented with the exception of the southwest.

Being the first meeting, most showed up not knowing what to expect, but there were a few items of business that did get tended to as well as discussion of several issues important to the membership. One of the more important items that was taken care of was the appointment of area reps for the different regions of the state. I don't have the names of each rep, but I know that we were able to get people appointed for each region except for the southwest and that should be taken care of by now.

The purpose of the appointment of the reps, is to have a designated person who can attend the different Game & Fish meetings that take place around the state and be the voice for the houndsmen of Wyoming. It would take alot of time and fuel if we were to rely solely on one person to make all the different meetings, but if we can have someone from each region who will attend, along with houndsmen from that area, we will make a good show in the eyes of our game department.

Another issue that was discussed was the cost for yearly dues. At the moment, the dues are $15 per year, but changes in that regard were discussed. We also talked about the start and stop time for dues. Most in attendance were in agreement that dues should run from January 1 to December 31, as this would make bookkeeping alot easier on those in charge of secretarial duties.

To my knowledge, we do not have the rules and by-laws written up, but that should be being taken care of fairly quickly. The election of officers is another very important issue staring us in the face. It was mentioned to me recently that some people are holding off on joining this association until after officers have been elected. I'm not sure if this is so they can make sure they like those who get elected, or so they can see that we are serious about this endeavor. Either way, the election of officers does need to happen soon as I'm sure it will. With the commission meeting happening around the state and new rules and regulations being discussed for the different game pursuits important to us houndsmen, things are happening quickly, thus making it hard to get everything done.

While we had the biologists at the meeting in Lander, everyone had questions and issues we wanted to discuss, which may have taken us off track a little bit for our first meeting. Regardless of that though, we were able to hash out several different topics that the houndsmen of this state are facing. Probably the most important is the commission meetings that are coming up where the WY G&F will be setting new rules, regs and seasons. Several of us volunteered to go and represent the group at the commission meeting that was held in New Castle, Wyoming over the last three days.

We knew the meeting was coming up, but all of us sorta dropped the ball and didn't know the schedule of events for the meeting. Thankfully though, between all of the calls back and forth and pure stubborness, we did make it to the meeting and we made a good showing. Myself, our area rep Tyler Melton and Bert Fortner all made it and the Wyoming Houndsmen Association introduced themselves to the Wyoming Game & Fish Commission. Tyler went to the podium and read our mission statement and found out a couple of important dates we needed to know. Bert also brought up a couple of issues in regards to specific rules and then they both answered a couple questions from the commission members.

After the meeting was adjourned, we met and visited with several officials in the G & F. These people actually acted happy to see us and then they told us how important it is for groups to attend these meetings. Besides us three, the only other person there representing a group was the rep for the Wy Bowhunters Association. We gained a little knowledge as to how these meetings work and what all has to happen in order to get on the agenda. Alot of this stuff is new to us, but if this group wants to be heard and wishes to make a difference, we will have to learn how to play their game.

I am not sure as to the exact date, but the next commision meeting will take place in Casper next month. Tyler is writing up a paper on regards to some issues we discussed with officials today and we hope to have it put on the agenda so that we may be able to voice our opinions next month. It would be really great if we could get a large contingent of houndsmen to show up at this meeting so the G&F knows we are here. And considering that there is a push in this state to have the mountain lion reclassified as a predator, we need all of the support we can get.

Being as we are a new organization and we are trying to get started, it is my opinion that we should try to schedule an association meeting the day we are to speak in front of the G&F Commission. We have alot of internal business that we should probably get out of the way, so that we have a better foundation and standing when we are acting as a statewide representative organization. This is strictly my opinion though and should be taken as such.

I hope JD doesn't mind that I wrote this out, but I did discuss it with my rep. We just felt that we needed to get the word out as to what all is happening. We have alot of houndsmen in this state and we need to try our best to get as many members as possible in order to have a bigger voice with Cheyenne.

If anyone has any comments and/or questions, I guess this would be the place to ask them. I have found that answers are sometimes slow in coming, but it takes effort on everyone's part to make this thing into a success. With a positive attitude, we can make it work.



Tex

The meeting at the commission was very useful we got to meet at the commissioners and how to adress them and get put on the agenda I spoke at this meeting and now they know who we are and we have to keep on them and fresh in their mind or someday we may not be running lions in the state anymore

Hey this is JD Downer. I truly believe we can make a significant difference in the management of a healthy lion population, in the state of Wyoming. This is going to take
a lot of research, sound data, facts, and not speculation on our part. Working together with Wyoming Game and Fish, we can then begin to manage these animals as they should be. Right now attending commissioner meetings and being actively involved is imperative. Creating a united front of fellow houndsmen, working together for a common goal, is greatly needed as there are other organizations working to get lions on a predator status statewide. Most of us, (me included), would much rather let somebody else worry about these problems and just take my dogs to the hills. However, that does not help us in reaching our goals or in changing the publics perspective of houndsmen that is so negative.

As was mentioned in an earlier post, several of us made it over to New Castle for the G&F Commission meeting. While there, we met and visited with Brian Nesvik who is the Chief Game Warden in the state of Wyoming. He took the time to explain how some of the gears turn in order to get rules changed in our favor.

Originally, we were under the impression that rules and regs for mountain lion hunting would be discussed and set this year for the following three years. Brian did set us straight on this count though and told us that the commission will be discussing furbearer issues at their next meeting that will be held in Casper later this month. He asked that if we have any items we wish to have brought before the commission to please write it up and hand it in to him in plenty of time for it to be placed on the agenda. Everything has to go through the correct channels and then brought forth by people in the G&F department.

This past Thursday evening, several members and the rep from the NE section got together and came up with the below proposal in regards to the bobcat regs. A copy has been forwarded to JD and I believe he was going to forward it out to all the members for their thoughts and consideration. Don't hold me to that though as I have not spoke directly with JD. I am including the proposal here, but you can contact JD if you wish to have it emailed directly to you.

We want to make sure that Brian Nesvik has this proposal in plenty of time to get the issue on the agenda, but we also wanted to make sure the Wyoming guys here on this board had a chance to see it before we sent it in. If you have something you think may need to be changed, get ahold of JD and let him know.

Tex

Proposals:

As houndsmen and conservationist of Wyoming we have joined in council to suggest proposals in order to help preserve outdoor opportunities and species populations for generations to come. We have several proposals that we have deemed necessary to further the privileges we enjoy in Wyoming.

First we are proposing a harvest limit per person for bobcats to help manage the declining numbers. The free-range management plan we are currently using state wide is non specific to regions. To preserve the overall population we would like to propose that the bobcat species have their own separate license with a limited number of licenses available to each sportsperson.

Bobcat furs have been of high value for a long time period thus making a high desire for their pelts. This desire has caused the pursuit to be money motivated and not sportsman motivated. Money is what drove the beaver into a population crisis in the mid 1800’s. Limiting licenses per person would generate more revenue as a result of the separate tags and provide funds for Game and Fish to better study and manage the population. The limited license per sportsman system is currently in place in other states such as Montana, and the population is thriving. This is an effort to preserve bobcat populations for generations to come. Being able to trap, tree, call, or shoot the animals at will during the lengthy season will damage the population long term.

We thank you for consideration in addressing this problem were are currently seeing in in our state populations and assisting us in preserving our game species for generations to come and to keep Wyoming’s outdoor privileges available.


Sincerely,
Wyoming Houndsmen Association

JD I would like to talk with you about this. Hit me up sometime if you would please.

Here is a copy of the email sent out to all members this morning by JD.

We are having an association meeting April 22, 9am, at the Hampton Inn in Casper.  This will be followed directly by the Game and Fish Commissioner meeting.  We need to have an official election of officers, board members, pres., vice pres., sec and such,  as well as by laws for our association.  We also need to finalize proposal for Game and Fish and discuss upcoming events.  I know not everyone can attend this meeting, as it is short notice and during the week, but we need everyone we can get to be there.  We also need to show a strong presence at the commissioner meeting.

Thanks
JD 

( 9am Hampton Inn Casper.....North side of I-25......Poplar exit) 

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I need to correct an error I made in the post above. I stated that we needed to get the proposal approved by the membership and turned into Brian Nesvik as soon as poosible in order for it to make it onto the agenda of this month's Game Commission meeting. That is incorrect. According to Brian, he will be the one to get it onto the agenda, but this particular issue won't be before the Commission until June or July. I am not sure of the exact dates yet.

Anyhow, the above proposal was forwarded to JD and has since been revised by him. The new revised proposal will be brought before the membership to voted on for approval at the meeting on the 22nd. The meeting is during the week, but all members are highly encouraged to attend if possible.



Tex

You need to leave the bobcat seasons and quotas as is. I can't see any benefit to anyone including houndsmen by further regulating the hunters and trappers of Wyoming. The G&F will let you write more rules so they can write more tickets, but in the end we all lose. If you want to attack a long overlooked issue do something about the South Dakota guys being able to come here and run lions and bobcats while not being reciprocal. It's the same with them coming here to trap bobcats, but we can only go there on a shortened season. There are some issues we can all get behind together without dividing the trappers and houndsmen of the state.

Well Calvin Taylor we need to implement some sort of bobcat management the harvest numbers are down 700 bob cats over the last three seasons and the issue of non residents getting to benefit from our natural resource is an issue we hope to handle in a hound handler permit like Montana and Idaho uses

Wyoplott, As I discussed with Tex the other day on the phone, the harvest is down because the cat numbers are down. The cat numbers are down because the rabbits crashed a few years ago. It has nothing to do with harvest by sportsmen. As the rabbits are coming back so are the Bobcats. This cycle is common and endless. Predators, especially cats, are controlled by prey base. Bobcats cannot eat rancid meat, carcasses, and things that coyotes can. They must have fresh meat or it makes them sick. That meat is 90% rabbits. No rabbits, no cats. There are large chunks of private land locally where there is no harvest. It's not allowed and cat numbers are down in those areas also. Again because of lack of rabbits, not harvest. But the bright side is all areas are coming back. There were more kittens around this winter and the rabbits are exploding in places. The 14-15 harvest numbers are going to be low simply because cat prices were forecast to be horrible and they were. Fuel prices were high and very few trappers went to the hills. I know of dozens of locals that never set a thing all winter.I'm sure it was the same state wide. I took over the north half of the county this year and there were plenty of sign that the cats are doing fine and on the upswing. With this good weather we are having now as the kittens are being born and the baby bunnies I am seeing everywhere I think we will have a great kitten crop. I can't see how anyone can benefit from further game and fish regulation. If you personally don't think there's enough bobcats then by all means leave them alone. Don't be out there chasing them around and putting them in a stressful situation with your dogs. If you're going to try and manage the trappers I think you should manage yourselves first. Shorten your hunting time. Shorten your harvest. How would you like it if someone tried to implement new rules on you? Say I went to the G&F with faulty data and reasoning and tried to get it so houndsmen could only run their dogs one month of the winter.
On the other issue, I don't know what the hound handler permit does or how it would limit lion and bobcat harvest by non residents? How can the houndsmen be happy with all the out of state guys that come here and run lions that come from states where you're not allowed to do the same? The trapping of bobcats by non-residents is the same. If we can't trap their full season, they shouldn't be able to trap ours. As I stated before, there are some issues that we can all get behind. We are stronger together than fighting amongst ourselves. Remember this... every state that has lost trapping rights has also lost hound hunting.

I know we will loose both rights the numbers of bobcats are down every biologist in the state knows that if you actually look at the data the harvests by other methods other than trapping is less than 4% of the total harvest we are not saying no trapping just less harvests and the stress on bob cats is not what you think it is I have ran they same few bob cats for the last 3 years cause there is not very many cats around the hound handler permit would be a draw for non residents so if they didn't draw they legally could not run dogs in the state that's how that would work there is already organizations in Wyoming trying to take our rights to run hounds we have not purposed anything to the game and fish just that we want a better bob cat management I believe Wyoming un trapped is the group you need to be against bobcat management is for their benefit and that is all we are purposing if you don't believe we need to manage bob cat numbers and the people who harvest them then you better get to the next commission meeting and have your voice heard

The bob cat management should be something the trappers should support anyways if you are seeing a growth in numbers in your area that is great nothing may change there but other areas in the state are suffering as a result of over trapping and bad management practices of you would like to grab a coffee and discuss this matter get my number from tex and we can maybe reach and agreement on some sort of management plan so we aren't on odd ends of the table and divided to where the other groups come in and take both our rights away we need to be one voice for the sportsmen of Wyoming

I have no problem visiting with anyone, but all the coffee in the world is never going to change my mind as far as game and fish management and bobcats. Take Montana for instance. They have a quota and it is all but ignored. You just have to buy more tags, for your wife, your kids, your buddies and so on. More revenue for G&F and the same harvest. Just makes people skirt the laws and the same will happen here. I can't skirt the laws or I'm likely to lose my job. But everyone else will. I am familiar with the issues with Wyoming untrapped, and have been very pro active in shutting them down. I will be pro active with any new regs concerning bobcats also. The WTA is well aware of this issue and also aren't willingly going to give up anything either. It is a non-issue when it comes to harvest. Like I said before, harvest by trappers is not changing bobcat populations. Populations are controlled by prey base. Trapper numbers are declining every year. There are very few young guys anymore and it's a shame. Houndsmen are the same. No sense opening the door to more un needed regulations by the game and fish.

Game and fish has NO IDEA or population estimate on bobcats and this is a major issue cause there is no telling how bad we are devistating the populations Montana and other states with bobcat management boast sustainable numbers and excellent populations and your wrong about Montana they run it just like we do a trapping license and when they reach the quota on bobcat the area closes doesn't mater who has a tag quota is the quota and it forces people to check bob cats in a more timely manner for better population control

One other thing you might want to take the time and educate your self as well as the WTA the number of licenses for trapping is at an all time high 3908 last year up 1416 from the year before. The trappers need to get their facts straight and be able to back up your claims with solid factual data. Cause the data we have collected shows you are wrong on all accounts just food for thought

You guys need to think long hard before deciding to go after ANY new regulation with the Game and Fish. Bobcat populations are not regulated by sportsmen there is just too much ground that people want the bobcats left alone. As Calvin stated the prey base is your driving factor. A decline in take does not always mean a decline is population as does a increase in take not mean an increase in population. Snow levels can dramitically decrease the trappers take and can help out the houndsmen. High fur prices can get more people pursing cats as well as poor prices reduces the number of people that pursue them. Your new regulation does not flucuate at all. The rabbit population is coming back quickly and the bobcat population is following although i havent seen in my area where the cats were "down" persay' . One sportsmens group regulating another is how we lose it all (divide and conquer). You don't see the WTA trying to set regs on your guys long season.