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For cougar the .30 30 or even smaller but for bears well... the .45 70 leaves a lil less doubt

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Which ever one you shoot better. I have both and carry my 30-30 more. Its lighter, carries more rounds in the mag and the bullets I carry in my pocket weigh less. The 30-30 also costs a lot less to shoot than the 45-70 so I tend to practice more with it and I can get factory ammo almost anywhere. The only advantage I see to a 45-70 is if I make a bad shot then it might do a little more damage and that can be good or bad - a bad shot is bad from any caliber.

I hunt mostly cougar and my .30 30 is more than enough. If I went after bear it would depend mostly on the kind of bears and location, size mostly.

I do like the .45 70

I love both and each will do a fine job if you choose the right bullet. I have killed numerous bear, deer, elk with the 30-30 and 170 gr. Remington Core Loct. Bullets. Cheap to shoot penatrates and kills well in reasonable range.I have also whacked enough critters and seen enough shot with the 45-70 to respect it as well. The venerable 45-70 and it's kissing new cousin the 450 Marlin both are excellent on black bear and similar game with properly constructed bullets. Neither are magic and although some are swept away with a sense of passion and power when they look at the big fat case and diameter of the 458 bullet it really will not mow trees down and knock animals off their feet. Just doesn't work that way and animals are killed by either a strike that disengages the central nervous system or tissue destuction of vital organs and blood loss. The 45-70 makes a bit bigger entrance hole but if the bullet is too thinly constructed it will open up quickly not acheiving deep enough penatration to disrupt vital functions quickly. Too heavily constructed and it will many times pound right on thru and possibly kill a dog on the other side. The same thing can happen with the 30-30 but is less likely to with bullets like those i spoke about which are desgned for animals ranging from white tail deer to black bear. I really think a person is probably better off with a 30-30 that he practices a lot with because he can buy a box of Remingtons at Wal-Mart fairly cheap than the old boy who has a 45-70 stoked up with a hot load and flinches like he just saw his checking account balance every time he pulls the trigger. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with the 45-70 but then again there is really nothing wrong with packing a 375 H&H magnum to dispatch the bear with if you wish to pack that kind of power. In reality it is a matter of choice but many many times more bear will be killed each year by the 30-30 than the 45-70, and not all of those guys and gals packing them are disappointed with the results.

32 grains of win748 and 170 grain nosler partition right to the head

Thanks everyone for the great input!

Robb

Just one other thing to say bears are thick skinned and are heavy haired. I would think the bigger round is going to lead to a larger wound channel which in turn leads for better bleeding out. Should a hunter be a little off mark with his shot and the bear runs off your gonna appreciate the bigger round and wound channel created by the 45-70. You'll have a clearer better blood trail.

Don't want to put yourself in position of trailing any wounded animal into heavy cover anyway so a shoulder shot that breaks the shoulder and cripples the bear would be my choice. Again, it's my humble opinion that the 45-70 is better suited for this. Not that a 30-30 can't take care of business.

I'm hardly a expert on bear hunting but being around some folks that are I have heard and seen a few things but still a tenderfoot when it comes to bears.

I'm a cougar hunter thats never liked cats...

Robb