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When they cloned mules from one that won most of the time in races, of the three clones none were like the winner that they hoped to get. So was it training and enviroment or were the clones not like the original. Maybe there was something missing? It is truly hard to reproduce what mother nature does even with all of our knowledge. Just something to think about. Dewey

I checked into it about 15 yrs ago, had a male dog that would out class any thing you ran him with. and as good as he was he did not reproduce very well but I was hunting with the biggest name dogs in the us an Canada and was watching him get older and didn't know what I could do about it. I checked with an outfit and if I remember right it was a minimum of 24,000 and it was my understanding that you may not get the exact dog.....while being genetically the same the product may be like one of the littermates, is how it was explained to me.
This was some time ago and was the cheapest facility I could find to inquire.
Jack

You can clone try to create a dog or pack of dogs to fit certain jobs, but I truly believe it is 99% the man that is hunting the dogs. The really good dogs that I’ve seen work under certain handlers didn’t do it with other handlers. If you swap dogs with a really good hunter, your dogs catch rate will go up and his dogs catch rate will go down. It all in the hunter.

You can clone try to create a dog or pack of dogs to fit certain jobs, but I truly believe it is 99% the man that is hunting the dogs. The really good dogs that I’ve seen work under certain handlers didn’t do it with other handlers. If you swap dogs with a really good hunter, your dogs catch rate will go up and his dogs catch rate will go down. It all in the hunter.

When you understand and stick with good breeding practices over a long period of time, something close to a clone is very possible and not uncommon with many of the services dog breeds and one family of hounds. The Chinese are just trying to take a short cut and we will have to see how it turns out.
Agreed- a good trainer with the correct environment, is an important role. (Food, shelter, population of species, time spent in training as well as many other variables.)
Although, a master breeder understands that in most cases the above items simply will not happen, so he breeds with that understanding, that breeding outweighs the environment with the goal of making it very difficult for the new owner/ handler to fail.

Two of my best friends growing up were identical twins. Even though they were identical in every way physically, they had very different personalities. One was a clean freak and a straight A student all through school, the other was very laid back and struggled in school, one was an excellent basketball player, the other hated basketball and was an amazing wrestler, both were excellent football players but played two totally different positions (quarterback, middle linebacker). Both went to college on athletic scholarship. One dropped out after his first year, got a job as a heavy load crane operator, got married and has three little girls. The other played all four years, and recieved a master in business, owns his own business doing work place safety coordinating, and just got married last month. I say this because even though they have a 100% of the same genetic make up (just like a Clone) were raised in the same way by the same parents they both developed very different personality’s!
My animal science professor in college when talking about dolly the sheep(first animal ever cloned)told us man can reproduce genetic make up perfectly, but personality can’t be reproduced.
In my opinion a good breeding/training program gives you just as good of chance of recreating the quality’s in the parents

Cameron

What was the cause of the twins being different with time?
Help me understand, what is a good breeding and training program?

one of the great bucking bulls-- Panhandle Slim was coloned. here is a link to a good article on than. note that there were 6 out of 25 attempts-- one died from breaking its neck, another was so mean they put him down 4 made it into the PBR events.. one of those 4, Mr Slim was good natured...
here is a link to read for yourself:


https://cms.pbr.com/en/news/features/ot ... lones.aspx

Interesting, thanks for sharing.
One thing for sure, we will be moving in that direction in the very near future for at least service dog. Old school methods, take a very long time.
Here is related information: https://www.gwern.net/Clone

driftwood blue wrote:one of the great bucking bulls-- Panhandle Slim was coloned. here is a link to a good article on than. note that there were 6 out of 25 attempts-- one died from breaking its neck, another was so mean they put him down 4 made it into the PBR events.. one of those 4, Mr Slim was good natured...
here is a link to read for yourself:


https://cms.pbr.com/en/news/features/ot ... lones.aspx

JTG wrote:What was the cause of the twins being different with time?
Help me understand, what is a good breeding and training program?

Scientifically I don’t know what the reason would be that my buddies had such different personality’s I prefer to view personality on a religious stand point:) but if I had to guess I’d say they had different interests that pushed them different directions which ultimately molded their personality’s.
As far as breeding I’m not a repratable breeder, but their are breeders out there producing dogs that are consistently as good as the dogs they bred and even better, so we would need them to chime in. As far as training it comes down to time, time, time, and also you have to give dogs as many opertunitys to succeed at whatever your training them to do. I believe that with everything you only get out of a situation what you put in. That’s just my opinion though

Cameron

Driftwood I really enjoyed that read
Thanks

Cameron

Henefer-hound-hunter wrote:Driftwood I really enjoyed that read
Thanks

Cameron

we did get to see those colones bulls in action at some of the PBR events.. they were pretty rank buckers. and like the article said, the one was pretty mild after the rider hit the ground.. it sure seemed that the other 3 made the bull fighters earn their pay.. if Shorty gets on here maybe he can add a bit to that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDIy6srvYks

I hesitate to post on your thread, but he goes, if the question is do two People/dogs have the same genetic makeup/DNA have differences in the end,

" by JTG » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:27 am

What was the cause of the twins being different with time?
Help me understand

the above video is the eight minute trimmed version of a 1.5 hr lecture given by Bruce Lipton, were he is opening the conversation about his experience cloning cells, and if you have the interest to make it through the longer version he will elaborate on how outside influence's change DNA on a molecular level.
I first started listening to his lectures when he partnered with Gregg Braden which in turn bring a whole other level of bringing things together by discussing how quantum physics proves certain things in the bible....and when he is talking about the bible he referring some of the 45 books removed by Constantine the Great.
I would not have brought up the religious factor on this forum if it had not been mentioned above.... about the twin brother and how it was believed they grew to be different, and wanted to give some feed back as to where this has been evaluated.
again the longer version of this video will be easy to find after watching this, and will have illustrations and experiments.

Jack