BigGameHoundsmen.com

How often have you seen this? Got a call, a fresh lion kill had been found on my best friends cattle ranch, turned out to be a small probably 60lb tom that had been killed, and another lion had started eating on it. We ended up catching about a 100 lb tom off the kill monday morning, but couldn't get the client up to the dogs. I'm thinking the bigger tom killed the little tom, I've heard nothing but lions will eat lions is this true? This is the 3rd time I've seen a lion feeding on another lion the first 2 were great big toms, both eating on females.

I'm headed back in today to see if he came back to the kill, I'll take pictures and post them later.

How many of you have seen this before and is this common?

UPDATE: I went back in and the kill has been undisturbed, the other tom has not returned, which was unexpected since the animal was gutted and one shoulder was eaten. Here are some pictures.

The head was removed on monday, it really makes the dead lion look a lot smaller without it.

This is where the kill was buried.

Something else that was pretty interesting the branches that were used to bury the kill were actually broken off of a plant about 10 yards up the hill in front of the power pole, I have never seen a lion do that. There was not much around to cover it with so the lion went and found something. How smart are these critters?






Mr.Martell and Mr.Leonard, thanks for the input. The doggies need some time for R&R though. So no more huntin this week.

Mike Harris

I have also found this a number of times. Not just big toms killing smaller toms or big toms killing females( oh yes they will do this at times). But certain lions become very cannibalistic.Sibling fights to death are common and may have as much as a 25% reduction in sub adult survival.It is very common in 3 kitten litters to have two of the subs later jump on the smaller sub and kill it, and they are not above eating it if they are hungry.

Had a guy call me out to look at a cow elk that had been lion killed and there close by it was a 30# kitten laying dead. He was convinced that the kitten had been killed in the act of bringing down the cow elk. It was bare ground and there was no way to prove my theory until the next day. Upon coming back with the hounds next day a light skiff had fallen and it was clear that the female and two similar sized subs came back, ate on the cow covered her a little wasn't much there to cover just rocks and small sticks. Low and behold the kitten had been drug or carried off a short ways and crudely covered only kitten tracks around it.

Allways somthing new I guess.

GENTLEMEN. THIS IS THE ULTIMATE DRIVING FORCE FOR A HOUNDSMAN!IT IS MY OPINION THIS SORT OF THING IS WHAT DRIVES ME HARDER THAN THE TREE OR KILL, THE LONGING FOR THE ANSWERS TO ALL THE UNSOLVED MYSTERIES. YOU STAY OUT THERE LONG ENOUGH YOU WILL INDEED SEE IT ALL! YOU JUST DON'T SEE THE VARIETY OF ACTION HUNTING ANYTHING OTHER THAN CATS.COOL STUFF MIKE @MIKE THANKS FOR SHARING.

Ive heard and read that this happens when either its
1.territoral or
2.when the food source is really limited.

Several years ago I was hunting in a winter range area that had deer compacted in it.It had snowed the previous evening so the conditions were ideal. First thing after light I cut a real nice tom track and turned out on it. The dogs were smokin this lion track and I decided to circle around on this road that would loop in front of them. Low and behold I crossed another big tom track, this one was entering the same drainage as the first lion I was already turned out on. As I sat there pondering the odds of this good fortune happening to me, I hear the dogs top out on the ridge above the road...right above the truck as a matter of fact. Down the hill right towards the the truck they came.

That is when the cluebird shit on my head..they were on this track backwards...I started scream'n my ass off and managed to catch all three dogs.

To make a long story short I drove back to where I had turned loose originaly and leashed the dogs up to walk in and survey the situation. These two large toms had ran smack dab into each other on a very open flat creek bottom and had literally had a face off at about fifty yards . They made a half circle around each other and went on their way. With all these circling fresh cat tracks the dogs took the backtrack out of there.

I put them on the proper track out of there and a hour later we had a 160 pound tom caught on a rock ledge. Went back to where the two cats had circled and turned loose on the other tom and treed it. Almost the same exact size tom.

I had always been told that a big tom will almost always kill another tom if he catchs him in his area...I guess not.

That is some excellent info bigcat thanks for sharing! I've seen two toms have scatching wars where one will come in and scratch three or four times on top of another toms scratch, but never anything like that.

I have witnessed it with wild hogs ,seen the results with a bear killing a cud , Do not know WHY ??? It would seem lion would do the same but again WHY ?? Hogs and bears cannalilistic YES Mt. Lion NOT sure . Any other critters do this ???

Bigcat I love that and beleive it. Those old toms don't fight any more than they have to. They get hurt bad they die cuz they need all they got to make a lving.

I have seen one really bad big tom fight schene and I killed the monster tom that killed the one who was what I feel resident 170 plus pounds. Don't know what the deal was but this old bad stinky monster came out of the Colorado high country and he was making his own tracks. They fought right across a forest road and it looked like two big bull elk had been fighting. Ground torn up dirt thrown here and there, and brush knocked down. The dead tom had two puncture wounds right in the top of his skull when the Dept. of Game and Fish examined him and weighed him. The old bad tom lit out, and made a dozen miles down into the low dry country to lay up I guess and lick his wounds. We stayed on him horses sweated up on a long trot dang anxious to see what was on the end of this. We thought all was lost and I reckon he felt he was home slick when a little old saddle back walker dogs jumped right up into his bed and said hello. It got a little western from there on out and that brave little dog never ran another but we packed him out of there on a sorrel mare. Trying to lift his dead weight off the ground I could only imagine with life running thru that beast what a real killing force he could be.

You know Mike it is one thing to catch little toms and some big females ...beautiful animals that look very unthreatening (we know better) But I have always had a real uncomfortable feeling when I have looked those monster toms in the eyes... especially the ones on the ground bayed up-always ready for the demon that I see in their eyes to come flying out. Knowing full well if he decided it was time to dance that something would probably die before I could do a damn thing about it.

I am not afraid of wolfs, lions or bears ....but them old monster toms have always had all my respect and full attention. They are the ultimate killing machine. I've always told people a dog can handle the speed of a bad bear and usually get away, but when a big tom lion has the idea that he is going to kill a dog pop into his head..that dog is as good as dead.

Would really love to be able to see what those big toms have seen and be able to replay their life history, that my friend- would be one show I would not miss!

Great Pics and great stories. I find all of this very interesting. Lions are facinating creatures for sure.

I have always understood a superior tom killing another for obvious reasons.

I was out last summer and happenned to come across a decomposing carcass that turned out to be a female lion. It wasn't the funnest job but I looked things over pretty thorough and discovered that she had a hole in each side of her skull behind the eye socket. The hide that was left had a corosponding hole pierced in it by what I could tell and what was left.

I know of a big tom that frequented that particular area on a fairly regular basis, as far as last winter and late last spring. Late last winter I caught this tom in a canyon that only covered about forty acres, while another adult tom was sharing the same forty acres. I assummed they knew one and other was there, I know they both left in separate directions. I assumed mabey that big ole tom was sort of passive and didn't mind the company considering there's lots of food and females to go around, hell who wouldn,t be "passive". I have just spent the last few months pondering the whole situation. I have never herd of a female fallen to old tom.

I would like to here more about females that are killed and mabey why a tom would kill them.

Great thread guys, keepem comin!

Cant say i have seen that before, pretty neat, thanx 4 sharing

I understand what you say about the look in a King tom's eyes. It is not defiance, it is not malivance, it is superiority.Yes in the North American Wilderness there is no other animal that will cross the King Tom on his own ground. Yes wolves, can on open ground as joint effort eliminate him, and yes occasionly he will be battered around a bit by moose, or elk, but this goes with the ground, and usually you find a soddy, skiff snow covered mound of moose or elk meat. Bears Hah! to the King toms they are a waste of time. Marty Stouffer shows little movies of subs playing around with honey bear ruffians, and raccoons. Not for the faint of heart this beast does not fight. No he would rather retreat but as a calculative killer he holds no back seat to the leopard or the monster Onco Jaguar he is El Gato. The most spectacular creature on his own ground that the America's have to offer.

No wonder we load up and go again. Yes his monster almost serpantine head with ears flattened and muscles bulging on the lip of the bluff. The brave hounds old and young bellow and lay flat as they scream their defiance to the King. Then suddenly the dustly leather clad tall person steps into the fray the slight tingle of spur rowell on the sandstone clutter. Get back Blue! Gunner, Kate Here! and then suddenly thunder, as the lightning turns to wind, and the murmer of the poderosa is heard again. Good dogs! Good dogs! as they wool their advosery. Suddenly things feel a little different as he walks off a bit and stares out across the mesa and sees a raven slowly winging across the sky. A little bitter taste in the mouth. he won't be out here tomorrow feeling. A sigh as you set about the skinning chore. Your dogs lay about panting as they watch. Your trusty rifle, ace in the hole lays propped against a log. Well I guess we got him, you say to yourself. And as you turn in your bed that night you hear this going over in your mind.

You got him, but if not for your hounds, and not for your gun and face to face on cliff of life who is the King?

I think you know the answer.....

big toms,deserve alot of respect,years ago,my first huge tom,they had him bayed on a rim,his back had a hundred feet daylight behind it,sugar&molly were trading spit,with him,when when i came in,sugars took a look back at me,a quick one,that tom rolled her right now,i've never forgot the look in his eyes as, i grabbed those two by the tail and drug'em back,he bailed over the cliff,landed about half way down on a rock outcrop & hit the ground running,put the hounds down on him tree'd him,he's on the wall 15 3/8 " this tom never ran step,when i came up the track he walked to where they bayed him.there's no doubt he was the king of the moutain,i've never got that close to another,the look before he bailed,said your a lucky man

I am fascinated with learning all I can about this beautiful creature. I recently read about lions killing bobcats... Have any of you come across that? I had assumed they did not bother each other in competition for food so ......