BigGameHoundsmen.com

I've never been out west, and when I go I want to go lion hunting, I don't really care about killing one, I'd just like to follow some hounds running something other than coons and bear, and get some really nice photos. I could pay a guide but my salary as a deputy sheriff just won't allow it right now. I've been following hound my whole life, i'd just like to see some different sceniery

If you're ever out this way you're welcome to jump in with me for a few days Mountain Top, cause the seat next to me is about always empty. I don't mind a ride along if they aren't interested in killing. The problem is a guy might spend several days finding a lion track to run since the lion population continues to get hammered in my area. Matter fact, it's gotten so poor, and there are so many doggers with their ears to the ground, I won't hardly let anybody ride with me that owns hounds or just out to kill a lion cause they'll just be out there the next day trying to kill the one I released.

Seriously, if a guy finds a big tom and lets it get away or releases it he better keep his mouth shut or everybody in the Basin is after that lion. Kinda sad in my books! Yup, a guy better guard his information like a pot of gold or the pot will be empty........... Example: Oilfield worker sees big lion track is fresh snow while working and tells somebody, which is repeated time and again and soon it's like a grass fire and you better get out of the way cause here comes the troops!

I know a guy here that has been cutting for a tom lion track to kill for as long as I've known him. He doesn't feed hounds and never has to my knowledge. But every time he has found a track or been told of a track he's called one of the local boys to come try and help him catch it. I guess they killed one in the snow over Christmas and maybe the pressure is off at lease for him. But that is what goes on around here, too many roads and oilfield workers driving down about every road. And if they see a fresh lion track in the snow they jump on the cell phone and if a dogger is free or close that's the end of that lion..................

The only answer to saving lions is going back to a limited entry hunt state wide and changing attitudes in the hunting community. The reason I say that is because Utah has gone to a privacy policy and will not give out the names of people who draw limited entry tags, therefore, if everybody driving down the road doesn't know who has a tag it is harder to kill those lions off........

But we have bigger problems, cause if we did build up the lion population again the tribe would most likely pay bounty on them to one of their tribal members or attempt to book hunters and take the cream off that population and pocket the money.....the only real way to save lions is having open winters without snow. I have a buddy who has hunted lions most of his life and he claims you can tell how many lions were killed last year by the number of Friday snow storms we get over the winter!

The benefit the harvest objective tags (and I've been one of the guys that benefits the most) is that we hounddoggers have been allowed to hunt year round to thin down the lion population. And I suspect shorter seasons and fewer tags will result in shorter pursuit seasons as well. And I'd rather NOT have many lions than have to stay home--period...........and that's why I've about quit taking hunters with a kill tag in their pocket!

I still talk to people all the time (hunters without hounds) that believe there are lots of lions in this area or the state wouldn't sell over the counter tags.......roflmao! And then a guy also needs to change the attitude and educate some of the guys that are feeding hounds, cause a dead lion doesn't leave any tracks and without tracks having a pack of good hounds ain't worth much.

But walking away from more lions won't necessarily make more lions to chase cause with the introduction of bighorn sheep across Utah more lions will need removed to allow those sheep to take hold. I hear the wolves will move into Utah and the fight to save sheep, deer and elk populations will only increase. Odds are the hounddogger and his lion population (the animal that makes the hound special to most of us) will only take another hit. The other day I made the comment that if I didn't already have a lock-down go get'em caught pack of hounds I sure wouldn't start making one now...........

Keep'em treed,


ike

Dennis,

Everything you said . All I can say is DITTO almost excactly same thing here for me. It is grim to think about and a bit depressing and I also would not start out again if I wasn't already in so deep.

Try this on for size: I am out cold trailing in the rims today have a good buddy along and he is the quiet no kill type with a good hound or two that is just a good guy to be around and can get thru the country with the best of them. We are busting our tails and the old dogs are trailing cold tracks but working to move them as best they can and they were making us proud. Long story short we didn't catch today but we had a blast enjoying the outdoors and watching honest hounds work. Here is the strange deal we are in fairly remote country and you can't drive it we were walking all the way, but as we come out it is like we have a gallery at our trucks. How did they find us? Oh we heard a radio transmission and then we have a scanner tracking system and we just thought we would see how you guys were doing. Ya right we do the leg work and you can bet your behind that they will be covering the country tomorrow while we go back to work. I was civel to them but I threw in one of my little digs . So I hear you boys have been cashing some checks on this lion hunting. Oh Ya we been doing pretty good. What do you tell yer clients when you have a nice female treed? Oh we don't kill females. Well sombody has been killing them, wonder who? Ahh Errr well you know a female makes a nice trophy mount for a guy that only hunts them once in his life. Bingo! What you are saying is a female can cash a check just as well as a tom?


Back to the original question sir if you come down this way you are welcome to ride with me as well. Might be a lot of looking and a lot of steep hiking and you may not see a lion but you dang sure will see a lot of pretty country.

And that's what it is all about to guys like you and me Mike, watching an honest dog pound down an old track and make us proud. The problem is too many people that kill those females and young toms are people who has never cut open a sack of dog food or fed a hound, let alone pay for any of it.

I had a guy call me just days before the harvest objective tags went on sale this year wanting a discount rate on a lion hunt. He was gonna find the track and all I had to do was load the hounds and come catch it for him--yea right! My answer to those guys is always that I didn't get a discount price when I bought my truck, or my wheeler, or my snow sled, the tracking collars, receivers or trash breaking systems; nor did I get a discount on the dog food or the boots I had to buy while learning the sport and training those hounds either. Matter fact, I still to this day haven't ever had a hunter ask me if he could come over and help me shovel shit on the frozen ground so my hounds don't have to live in it.

roflmao......it's a good thing I'm not the one giving out tags for the fish and game or anybody that got one would have had to do the things I've done first!

keep'em treed,
ike

Mike and Ike, I would love to make a trip over to hunt with you guys just hoping that some of your knowledge will rub off on this new hound hunter. Keep up the fight.

Tony Steelman

If you want to fly to Spokane, rent a car, and drive three hours I could show you some cats. We are spoiled here. If conditions are decent we can catch at least one lion a day. Generally short races if you just want to rack up numbers. Many days if time permits we will have two or three productive races. It is a little trouble getting here, but the hunting area is not brutal and cats are plentiful. This country would bore those season old veterans from the desert to tears, but it is hard to beat for starting young dogs and getting the wool wet.

Yaak Man,

Don't think that there are not those days old Ike and I would not like to have a short one or TWO! Holy smokes! and go to the casa. But it ain't nothing but a thing and you are doing well and enjoying it and that is great. Occasioanly we get a break and get it easy and then again who knows, but for a fella wanting to go out in the great outdoors and see a lion nothing wrong with a good day in the Big Sky Country. Sorta make a man feel like Del Cameron a bit to stand under one of those big pines and look up at tom cat in old Montan. Down here in San Juan, Rio Arriba or even Uintah Co. Utah a lot of times we are darn glad to get them run up a scrub cedar and hold on long enough for us to come huffing and puffing up there and try to get out a camera with shakey hands. LOL!

But it's those short races, Mike, that makes a guy get to thinking he's good, or that his dog's are good, only to have the next track lead off over the horizon and seemingly have no end that brings most of us back to reality. I've watched those dogs go out on a dirt lion track in the fall thinking they were moving fast enough that they'd surely catch the old tom lion only to call them off at dark fifteen or twenty miles from where they started. Then a day comes along where I can start one that doesn't move any faster and nearly hear them fall on the wood from where they started--go figure?

If I ever get to where I can figure which one of those tracks will end in a tree before dark and the ones that won't I won't have to buy as many pairs of boots.............

ike

I hear you guys, I have been around long enough to know that just cause a guy looks at fifty or more cats in a winter don't mean much except were having fun. Don't get me wrong, we have some tough country and it can be as challenging as anywhere, but if you want to rack up numbers and wear you dogs thin then this is ideal country.
We spent last weekend burning up dogs and sleds on a twenty plus mile adventure. Crust and rain made it challenging along with tom that climbed way up into the wilderness. It was his mistake to come come out and kill a moose. My boy worked his tail off and wore out some snowshoes in the process. If we find one we want to whack we will work like you old desert dogs do, but I would rather catch a crafty old bobcat than ten easy lions. If we had it tough like you guys we wouldn't have so many hounds being fed in the county. I don't pretend to have super dogs, but they have been getting better as a whole for the past 15 years and it don't hurt the young dogs to see fifty cats before they are two.

LOL!

Ike,

You talk about boots, I have rotating pairs and it drives my wife nuts. Why do you need so many pairs of boots? Well you spend all day following one of those kind of races you just desribed and even if they are snow sealed and top quality they are going to need some work. So you have to let them dry out and snow seal them again and take a fresh pair for the next day. I use Schnees, Hermans, Danners, and even Whites. And I have a few pairs of Cabelas that I throw in there but they all have to be rotated when you are hunting a lot of days in a row. I have one old pair of Brownings that I love they are fairly light, comfortable and with my knee High gators I stay dry. But I can't find these boots anymore and I try to baby them a little to get another season out of them.

If a lion travels 20 miles a night I have to go at least 18 it seems.And then it usually gets dark. I think I heard Wiley Carroll say that one time.

Yaak,

You are right there is nothing wrong with a young dog looking at 50 over his first 2 years. That is a ton of experience and all of them are not easy and I think dogs or good dogs learn a little more from every lion.

I know a little about that country and it can be brutal. Year back Jerry Lewis and I use to have some friendly debates about hunting on bare ground or in snow and which was tougher and all that. It was all in fun and actually we agreed with each other more than we didn't and snow can be extreemly difficult or very easy just depend on the time . temp and situation. Dirt can be the same way, but one thing I use to run into Jerry was well maybe I am not tough enough to hunt your country anymore because when you get up close to the wilderness that you spoke about Yaak things take on a different dimension. The roadless snow covered cold wilderness if very unforgiving and when your dog's voice fades over that last wind whipped ridge with snow swirling over the crest it gives you a real sinking feeling in your gut. Because you can die right over that ridge and it might be next spring before they find whats left of you.


Brrrr! Makes me cold thinking about it.

Oh, youv'e had that feeling too. It is the one thing I dread most. Well, second most to the wolves. Years ago I didn't have dogs that would stay out for a week, but I do now and there is no way a guy can snowshoe verticle ground in neck deep powder. We were pretty happy to get our signal back. Every place has it's challenges. I have an outfitter friend in Az. that ribs me about how easy it is to hunt in snow. In many cases it is easy, but sub zero temps. and half froze rivers with shelf ice throw in an ungodly amount of wolves and things can go bad even if you are careful. For the most part, however we have it pretty easy. You don't have to have great dogs or a lot of spendy gear to catch a moderate amount of game here. I guess the lack of trophy toms plenty of competition and not being able to run bears are the biggest downside, Oh and the wolves. Did I mention the wolves? If you ever just want to get away, I have a cozy little cabin on the Yaak river with kennels and power and plenty of trouble a guy could get into, You are welcome to join us for a week. I'd like to see some of those Nance bred walkers up close.

Yaak....buddy I could send you some more of our precious wolves if you like, but the last two I got a "steady" look at are in "wolf heaven" now this winter

Got another load of "skinz" for ya.

Hey Byron, we got enough here now. In fact we should be exporting them. Jeff call and was all giddy about the tom down south you guys whacked. He wanted credit for an assist since he found the track. Looks like you found a new guide. Are you about done up there yet? Looks like you done pretty fair "cleanin' up the scraps".

Got a few scraps to go yet, and ya I think Ol' Alice may be my next go-to guide/houndhandler. Man is he fun to hunt with, rigging him up with a snow machine tonight and his GPS system arrives with the next hunter, worth his weight in gold that boy but sorta hard on my "vodka budget" Got a monster tom eating daily on a wolf bait right now and the hunter is flying in (we got killer snow), wonder how that will play out I think I deserve an easy one

Got a re-incarnation of Roy coming if ur interested 45 days of season left for those few with valid tags