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Guys bare with me, I hope this doesn't sound stupid, but I have not had the privilege to hunt lions since we don’t have them on the East Coast. I know the trailing conditions on dry ground out West are different from here. I also know that a bear leaves more scent than a lion. I would like to know the difference in cold trailing a lion verses cold trailing a bear. I don’t think the expectations of the hounds are any different in trailing whatever game we put them on. I would like learn and get some feedback on this. Is the difference in trailing the two in completely different categories? What makes it so different?

The answer depends on who it's coming from, in cold trailing if a hound is going slow and having to work hard to find scent it's cold trailing wether it's on a bear or lion. It's funny how sometimes people think that dogs don't have to cold trail to start an older bear track and that those same dogs can't cold trail a dirt lion, I hunt mainly dirt lion and have hunted bear alot also and cold trailing is cold trailing if a dog is barely moving a track obviously they aren't getting much scent. If a dog has the settle,patience and the nose to cold trail it's pretty simple after that. Just my opinion.

I agree cold trailing is cold trailing. The biggest differance is 90%+ you dont have to cold trail bears, and the times that you do it is ussually for a short distance then the track warms up. Where as a lion track you might cold trail all day.

I buddy of mine has bee hives down on the Rio Grande in some swampy areas. The bee hives are ussually at the edge of the salt cedars swamps and where it breaks out of the river bottoms turns to desert. If you read Kiblers book this is the same general area he talks about darting the lion in the swamps. Anyways every now and then in the summer bears would come down to the river and play hell on the bee hives. Its a 100+ degrees there in the summer and it would take the best cold nose lion hounds we had to move the tracks from the desert sandy type soil. Once the tracks hit them thick nasty swamps it would instantly turn into a blow and go bear race. The tracks were ussually a night to just hours old but because of the conditions you had to have some sure enough cold trailers to get them going

Thats a perfect example Big Mike. One time I was working on a bear track in some ash, anyway same deal over night track our best cold trailers could barely find it until it left the ash than they could move it faster I'm glad you know and agree that just because bears have alot of body scent that doesn't mean conditions hold alot of it.

I hunted bear for 30 years and I can honestly say I only saw a few dogs that would truely cold trail a bear. I never wanted one that would because cold trailing a bear is any track that that is over 12 hours old. Although dogs may look like they are cold trailing on a bear track most of the time it is just difficult tracking, poor ground bad conditions or they track is just about at the end of it's life. Trailing a bear track over 12 hours old is usually an excercize in futility. Bear unlike lions may not travel that far but usually they go to feed and then go back to bed up and thus the track is eaither picked up going to feed or returning to bed. So if he was going out to feed say at 4 pm in the afternoon and you picked it up at say 7 in the morning ok that track has 15 hours on it and you may successfully start it run it to the feed ground and then it turns around and goes back. As cold as it is it may take all morniong to do this and then the track comes back the way you are and if the dogs cold trail it back to the crossing point it may get too old once the sun gets on it and it is gone. Better you go past that cold strike on to the fresh strike where it crossed going back and you will quickly jump the bear from it's bed. Now if you had hit that track hot going to feed the afternoon before you would have quickly jumped that bear as weel. running old bear tracks is not at all like lion track. Lion with their nomadic nature have to be cold trailed because they do not return to regular lay ups like a bear. Lion scent is not at all like a bears scent. Bear scent is strong in the air for a period of time but it is light in the scent molecules and it disapates quickly. Thank goodness, or we would be trailing lots of bear tracks we would never catch. I saw a few old blood hound cross dogs that could pick up on a day old bear track but they would never move it very far. I have seen the same type dog pick up and move a lion trail that was known to be a week old but this is rare and you don't catch those lions.

As far as running a bear in the snow 5 days old well that can happen but here's is what happend to catch it. In five days if that bear was out you would possibly trail it over 100 miles but when they snow comes in or the spring snow is still on the ground but the bears are stirring they don't get far from their dens. So the dogs pick up on it a little in the snow, sight trail that big old lumbering track which a 5 year old kid could do, and then eventually get to where Mr. Bear is hanging around his den site and bay or tree him. but you are not trailing down 5 day old bear trails and catching a bear you are following slight scent and sign to an area where the bear is.



I know a lot of guys that catch a lot of lions and hunt them for years and have still never really seen a true cold trailing lion dog.


If I was to go back to bear hunting I would hunt these same dogs but I would have them tuned on the rig and when they lit up on the box I want to know them and when they hit the ground I want to see sparks flying as they build to that bear and then I want to hear that canyon roar telling me they are smelling bear butt and they are running to catch. Cold trailing bear is for the birds!

As always Mike advise is right on point. There are way to many bear to waist your time cold trailing. I have a few of those nance dogs right now and let me say that Mikes last segment he wrote is exactly what a bear race should sound like when the pack is fireing on all cylinders.

High -Tec, I live over here with you. I don't think it differs that much. The folks on the other side will say it does. Especially the southwest folks. My opinion our bear hunting ways differ that much. My old friend in Washington State and myself have pondered this very topic many times. He agrees after hunting the same dogs in both places. Basically the way they cat hunt is very similar to the way we bear hunt. Bear hunting off the rig typically doesn't even involve a "jump". Majority of the time that track is ready to run. Yeah it should be like you shot them to its a$$ with a rocket. They are fresh, the track is hot, everybody should take it and bunch right up. Most the folks around here can't hunt that way because of road access. We still cold trail overnight and older tracks and expect to jump them. Not everything is filthy cold but come hunting season in the fall most are. Most the bear I ever seen won't venture to far from the feeding ground unless they are hunting another. Which seems to be normal. They stay till the mast is gone, then they are gone. Quiet nomadic over here at times. Typically they lay down in the feeding ground or at the nearest water when feed is plentiful. Bear aren't necesarily lazy but they won't wastefully burn fat either to just travel around. Unless feed is short and then they don't ever seem to stop or lay down. So unless you find the honey hole to turn out of then we have to try to cut a wandering/crossing track off foot on the trail. That track could be hot or cold. No difference to me. Same dogs for both jobs. Maybe this is where we differ from the cat hunting? I expect everybody to set in on that track. 5-15. Not just 2-4. Right thru hot trash and all, till they jump it. Takes a more complete package of a dog as well to bear hunt this way and an in-shape handler to keep up and be there, than rig hunting. Typically it ain't over in a half mile and a half hour either though. Sure does help out when you find that day old big boys track,the one for the wall, to be able to trail him up and run him down to the catch.

I find this thread very interesting. While I have no experience whatsoever with lions, I have been in on a couple bear chases. I also know a few guys that travel from here to go do it out west. From what they've told me, lion scent seems to be heavier or hang around longer. So the dogs can effectively run an older lion track vs a bear track. From my experience, bears can leave a lot of scent but it just doesn't hang around and dogs can struggle at time trailing it.

Most guys here strive to find a dog that can jump nearly every overnight track and very few dogs can do it. Especially when it becomes fall and the the nights get longer and the conditions drier. It seems that we've got the exact opposite needs than most guys out west do and we need wicked good cold trailers come fall. It seems our larger bear can be traveling suckers that get a whim and just go on walkabout to parts unknown. I've seen LOTs of overnight long tracks that never result in a jump. Heck we've had time where a big track has been put down on by 3 different groups and worked to where the other group started and still no jump.

Just this year we had a morning where we had two nice tracks roughly 5 miles apart, finally our ship had come in and we'd catch up to a jumbo. NO way we could screw up two tracks. Put down on one and proceeded to work it all morning right to the other track, kept at it and about noon ended up bumping a little rat somewhere along the line. No idea where the original one ended up. Other times they can go a week and not move 200 yards.

In any case this is an interesting topic. Oh BTW, I'll gladly swap any of you guys for some of those dogs that are too cold for some that are too hot nosed.

Cold trailing bears, tracks and how far a bear has gone is not a black and white issue. I hear Nolte saying the fall is a tough time to trail bear because of long nights and dry weather. But what about late spring and early summer trailing when a boar is thinking about mating and covering country to find sows? Maybe there are so many sows in other states that boars don't travel, but where I live a damn boar can travel nearly as far as a tom looking for the same thing.

The last week of May and into early June, a boar may well hit the ground on the move around 5:00 PM and cover lots of miles in a low density bear area. Then Mr Hound dog comes along and rigs that bear around 7:00 or 8:00 AM and you better be on the right end of that bear just like a traveling tom lion. What I see, if on the wrong end of the track, is a blowup rig and track that moves out pretty well and slows as the day moves along. And those dogs may well have to work a track all day long to jump that bear--a bear that is laid up and fresh to boot on the jump!

I had a buddy out a couple springs back on spring pursuit and my houndsw blew up on a bear and we sent them. The track moved pretty good and we thought a treed boar for sure. Then morning turned to afternoon and eventually to evening and I called the last three dogs in after twelve hours of cold trailing, and they never had a jumped boar as the road system was such that we stayed nearly in hearing all day long.......

I'll agree with Mike that cold trailing bears is for the birds, but my question is how can you tell how far that bear is away? In my opinion, a hunter can never tell the end of the track by the beginning whether it's a traveling tom lion or a boar on the hunt for the ladies.....

The cold trailing scent difference between lions and bears has always been subject for discussion and thought. Personally, I always figured a cold lion track moved better than a cold bear because most people are hunting bears in warmer weather. And a hound's sniffer just works better in the cooler weather just like I do. Last spring I went into a steep bear tree in the morning hours and didn't even drink my water. Later that afternoon I went in the same canyon, same distance and pitch and ran out of water because it was hot. A hound can trail in dry country in November one hell of a lot longer than he can in May or September....

Just my thoughts, good topic!
ike

We cold trail alot of bear here, sometimes they can get hard to find, when they are thick we rig the dogs, when they are hard to find we put out on tracks they can't strike off the box and let them cold trail. We have been known to go back to a tree were we caught the day before and turn loose and catch again (yes, its the same bear but it sure beats going home and watching t.v.). Run alot of old iced up tracks in the snow, yes, they will sight trail them until they can smell them but they will sight trail lion and cat tracks until they can smell them also. I guess I'd have to agree with the person that said 'cold trailing is cold trailing' regardless of the species at least in my experience.

I remember a hunt some years back and it was August in Arizona and it was mighty hot even up in the fairly high country. We were right up there close where Dale Lee kept his summer camp and bounty hunted lions and trained dogs while is was just too hot down below. We had a good comfortable camp, and good water close by. My two partners were both mountain raised boys with good woods skills and some pretty good old time Lee bred hounds. They hunted both lion and bear, but thei particular trip we were after bear. We had three hunters in camp. One was a businessman from San Francisc fairly young in pretty good shape and had done a good deal of riding. The other was a sports show promoter who I guess was fairly well known for his TV deals and the other was his personal helper,or valet if you will, and he was ex-special forces Vt. Nam vet and a real man. Well we were in good bear country and even though the weather was hot we felt good about our prospects of getting them some bear even though some of the local old timer hounds guys tried to discourage us from this area saying the bears were spoiled and wouldn't tree or hold. Well my dogs were in top running shape as I had been hunting them a good deal, and the other fellas dogs also looked fit if not just a little thin from all the hunting. (A note dogs on the thin hard side sure do better in hot weather). Well we split up the next morning and one guy took the single California hunter and one pack of dogs and a helper and went off and the other guy and I took the TV guy and his helper with us. We were all mounted on horses and mules. Shorty after daylight we hit a running track of a big boar and the dogs ran him hard for a ways and treed him in a rocky header. Well we finally got this TV guy down there but he bitched all the way about the hard ride and the climb and he hadn't even seen hard yet. Well it was a big sorrel bear about 300 pounds up in a Ponderosa and we tied the dogs back or tried to I should say as we told this guy to hold his fire till we did. Well he opened up with theis 300 Savage rifle and shot the lower jaw off this bear and he went to running around in the tree and this guy freaked out, and I was afraid he was going to shoot a person or a dog or somthing. Well his helper got ahold of him and settled him down and had him set on a rock and use a limb for a rest and he killed the bear with a lung shot with the second bullet. Well when this bear hit the ground we did the photos and all and we noticed one of my old dogs and another old redtick were missing. They had been there but were now gone. We figured they probably went to water as there was a small creek below there. Well we just about had this bear skinned and we heard them open up trailing away at a good clip. Well we got this bear skin gathered and mounted up and about that time the first guy that went off with the other hunter showed up hearing the shots and he had a nice chocolate boar tied on a mule. Well those dogs were leaving fast so he and I left the horses and mules with the other guys and took to them on foot. Well it was a terribly long orddeal that saw several dogs getting killed but we finally succeeded in getting the helper a huge brown boar, and he made a great one shot kill out of a tall tree with his long barrelled 44 magnum Blackhawk. Well that was quite a day and coming out almost dark with three good boars skinned and loaded we felt pretty good. We were going up the trail and just about to top out and these hounds were beatand one old strike dog redtick just sort of fell off the trail and went to flagging his tail and bawled. Oh lord catch Red said one of the guys that owned him. I bailed off my mule and grabbed him just in time. I looked down and there was a bear track right there. We looked it over and all the other dogs had gone by it and it looked to have been made the night before and here it was late in the day. I asked him what would have happened if I had let him go? He said well he would have trailed off that top and worked and worked on it and then finally he would have fallen asleep next to that first sorrel bear's carcass cuz that is excactly where it was headed and we cut itpn another bench just below this.

old hound was sure nuff a cold trailing bear dog.......

This is some really good information and thanks for all this knowledge. I can't say cold trailing bear is for the birds because in Dec after all the deer hunters leave the woods, bears tracks can be few and far between here. Sometimes we might be lucky and find one or if really lucky two tracks a week. If I find one I want my dogs to be able to trail him and catch him. This would be the same for a lion hunter? So by lions moving into different areas and the scent being able to hold a little longer makes it better for coldtrailing?

Ike wrote:. But what about late spring and early summer trailing when a boar is thinking about mating and covering country to find sows? Maybe there are so many sows in other states that boars don't travel, but where I live a damn boar can travel nearly as far as a tom looking for the same thing.

We can't put a dog down here until July 1, so I don't have any experience with spring bear trails. I would imagine though that the boar trails are long and traveleing. I do know that the bears are everywhere and a guy has a much better chance seeing a good bear at this time of year vs later in the fall. What we see a lot is that the bears semi migrate to areas with a lot of food. It all depends on the year but it may be acorns or even corn further south. They will come back but who knows how long that will be. Others will just stay put. But I sure wouldnt' bank on finding a good track and then having it hang around for very long.

Yeah I agree Nolte and High-Tec. Come late December 1-2 tracks a week if we are lucky. Usually boars. If fat they seem to lay around. Thin and they move alot. Nolte I see quiet a few tracks every year never get jumped. Bear never stopped and to far behind it. Cold trailing the right experienced bear is what sucks. Bear jumping out the bed wild well before the hound usually ends up sucking. Big bear out run you with ease with enough heads up notice. Bait traveling bear suck the worst probably.