Suggestions for a hunting/ranch/kids dog

[david]

[macedonia mule man]

Cabin fever is setting in a little early in North Dakota this year.

[ethertonee]

David I feel as though you have been holding out on the lab cur mix thing. Just kidding. Trash breaking a lab can be interesting though. They like to retrieve things and shocking them with a skunk in there mouth when they are retrieving it only makes them run to you faster, just saying. It is hard to out run a dog in the dark but I had to do it 3 times in one night. Needless to say we are broke off skunks now. My lab won't go with the hound much over 50 yards do to the way I trained her to bird hunt. She does tree multiple coon every year if I watch her though. She won't use her mouth though. I let her retrieve possums to so I can kill them as they are so hard on eggs. I now also have to carry a pistol bird hunting as she gets coons then as well.

[al baldwin]

[david]

[dwalton]

I have hunted Leopards with my hounds about 14 years now on bobcats and have seen hundreds of bobcat caught. A cur is not a hound they act and hunt different. They do not waste there energy covering a lot of ground,they can be very cold nosed and will come up with the cat at times when the hounds can't. They won't pound a track and get nowhere like some hounds tend to at times but at times they will get out when the hounds come back not being able to work a track out. I loaned Tim Pitman one of my older Leopards a couple of years ago to help him with his young dogs. After the season was done he made the comment that he had never seen what I had in the curs until he had hunted one himself. The comment was [ Reggie is one heck of a cat dog, she can make a hound look bad at times]. No dog is perfect be it hound or cur but there is a place for both. A lot of people will not like curs because they may not have the charging around looking for a track like hounds may have. In my opinion that charging around that some say when they see it [ man look at that dog hunt] is just like a attention deficient kid a lot of running with nothing accomplished. Each to their own be it hound or cur but you are comparing apples to oranges. Dewey

[macedonia mule man]

MERRY CHRISTMAS DAvid, I’ll be back with words of dog wisdom after the 1st.

[al baldwin]

Merry Christmas David. Sure you fired up, good for the heart. Actually I liked Dewey/s post comparing curs to hounds, much better than yours. However, think leopards are now considered hounds. I would bet if one knew the linage behind those great curs you speak of there is a hound in the woodpile. Al

[david]

[al baldwin]

David, went back and read Dewey/s post again. Still believe it was good post, except the part about the attention deficient kid. No one is perfect.
Thought you would have thicker skin. David I have hunted with a couple quarter curs that I really liked. Sorry I offended you so, was not my intention. To each his own. Al

[SASS]

Great posts David, most people won't believe something they have not seen. I was one of them, but that was changed by an old man in Northern CA and a pack of four dogs that ran bears and fox better than I had ever seen before back before it was outlawed there. I have hunted in a lot of states at least 5 that I can think of with every breed, and to this day that is the goal I am still working towards.

[dwalton]

The first time David hunted with me was almost 40 years ago and just a few years back he stayed at my house for almost a month. David has spent time and talked to personally more top hound and cur men than anyone that I know in most parts of these United States. There is a lot of knowledge there is his book and his head more than most of us. Thanks for contributing David. Dewey

[JTG]

Hello, David.
I started with the, complete opposite of what you describe, first with cur/hound crosses and then with pure hounds. The curs/hounds that we use have been in the family for more than 100 years. I could go into the history, but they are a mix of curs and hounds over a long period of time. The last one is in my kennel with a gray muzzle and soon they will be gone forever. They are unbelievable smart and good hunters bred through many years of selection. Many looked just like a Leopard cur, in fact you could not tell the difference, and others would come a lemon yellow and others red. They came from a different time when they had to earn their feed and hunting daily from day light to dark on horseback was common. They would not put a collar on them until they knew for sure they would make the cut, and few would. They also acted as security around the house and protected chickens, livestock and would bay a hog in a heartbeat.
What I have found with curs is they are more forgiven, especially with a less experienced trainer and better to hunt on smaller tracks of land.
I have seen a few very good curs and many not so good and the same with hounds. The breeder who practices good breeding practices is what makes the difference in any breed.
This I know, most hound, curs and hunting dog people are being listed on the endangered species list. Too many distractions for the next generation with less places to hunt and a full frontal attack from snowflakes.
JTG

I started to defend myself to mule man, weeks ago, but decided it really is a waste of time. You guys knows what you knows and that’s far as it goes.

I’m not talking about cat hunting Al. I’m talking about coon hunting in the Midwest. I have owned as many Good walkers as the next Walker guy, and more than most folks.
I have hunted with a lot of Cur dogs also. And I can see where they could get a negative reputation. And many of them deserve it; Just like most pure coonhounds deserve a poor reputation as cat hounds. But anyone who feels that way about ALL curs has not hunted with a good one in the places they were designed to hunt, and the game they were bred to hunt. Not even close.

If Mule Man is giving an honest description, then he has never hunted with a good cur, and has hunted with a really poor one. And if you think my hunt description above could only be fiction, Al, then you have never hunted with a good Cur. (I toned down what actually happened on that hunt for the sake of being brief). And if your life and dog philosophy has never been forever turned on its head by a single dog, then you have not hunted with a good Cur.

And, it’s amazing sometimes it won’t matter if some Houndsmen hunt with a good Cur because they can’t see it; Kennel blindness, breed blindness, or whatever name you want to give to it,it is rampant in this sport. But I have trouble being that dishonest about a good dog no matter what shape, sound, or color it is. And I liked to go with the dogs when I could so I actually saw what happened in there. I have quietly listened to road standers make excuses for their dogs my whole hunting life. But I was in there and saw what happened. Good curs have made some really classy coon hounds look very silly on Midwest coon. And I also know a lot of registered coon hounds that have been sold using pictures of the hounds posed in front of (barn walls covered with) coon that were caught by Cur dogs.

I did not start out liking curs better than my hounds. It was a very hard pill to swallow.

I never again would seek out a pure bred coon hound if I wanted to collect coon hides. It would be the most rediculous thing I ever did. And the biggest waste of time. Because I know what is out there in the Cur world if I look hard enough. I can catch more coon A lot quicker, with less effort, less gas, and way less frustration and fewer headaches. And then have a dog that understands me better than I understand myself; and WANTS to please me more than he wants to please himself; unlike any hound I have ever owned.

What kills me about you guys is that you DON’T even WANT to know the truth. If you can’t find the truth there in your cozy secure little neiborhood of like-minded people, then you would just rather not know. It’s so much more convenient and fun and a lot less work and expense to simply declare that everyone everywhere else is lying.

When you get ready to see a good coon minded Cur make a good coon hound look ridiculous coon hunting, let me know, I’ll hook you up.

But if I can help you and mule man out with your periodic needs For casting doubt on the honesty of people you don’t know, have never hunted with, and would refuse to: hey, fire away. Glad I can minister to your needs in that way. I don’t really need for you to think that I am honest with people. The people who actually know me and hunted with me generally fill that need for me.[/quote]

[pegleg]

Glad everyone is feeling feisty and up to debating every topic wholeheartedly. Hope it carries on through next year.
Now about those useless damn curs.....

[dwalton]

People only know what they know, that's a given. People don't know what they
don't know,how could they, that's what usually gets us in trouble when we think we know based on limited knowledge. We have all been there at sometime.Think about it.Dewey