Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah F&G

Magnet
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Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah F&G

Postby Magnet » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:03 am

We need your help. We are in a grueling battle to keep our Bears and Lions managed in such away that they can survive at a healthy rate. We would like to see the limited entry return and the killing of all the females and sub-adults to be stopped! As most of you know the Utah Game and Fish department has implemented a strategy to kill them all off to protect the Mule Deer population. They have been over harvesting our Mule Deer for at least 25 years and are blaming it on the lions and bears. I need you to go and “LIKE” our page at the link provided. We need as many members as we can so we can have the clout to reach out and get the Utah Game and Fish to come back to the table and negotiate a reasonable plan to insure the future of these majestic animals. We do not endorse killing any FEMALES of the species. “IF IT SQUAT'S TO PEE LET IT BE” Please support us in our cause for these great animals. Thanks for helping we really need YOU! https://www.facebook.com/UtahHoundsmanAssociation
Last edited by Magnet on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
M Evertsen
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby M Evertsen » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:06 pm

Ok, I have kept my words to myself for the most part, but my B.S. meter has just about pegged out.

I simply do not understand the mentality that ONLY killing males is actually healthy. At some point, females have to be killed to maintain a healthy population. I don't think that every female (or tom for that matter) that climbs needs to die, but a cross section of age and sex classes need to be killed to maintain a healthy population. If you kill only mature (say 6+ year old) toms, then pretty soon you have an over abundance of lions. Now this may not be a bad thing for a hound guy, but is it really a healthy lion population that will now crash because it has grown beyond what its prey base can support? We have to look at the long term health of a lion population as a goal, not just how many lions can I catch this winter vs.. the other guy. FWIW - I have seen a lot of pictures of mature toms from Utah over the last couple winters, so someone must be finding the big boys.

Just does not make sense to me.

And here in NV, I did GOOD to catch 2 lions this winter.

Later,

Marcial
The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion to their commitment to excellence, regardless of their chosen field of endeavor. - Vince Lombardi
Magnet
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby Magnet » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:53 pm

I agree with you Marshall. They have changed the rules to kill everything. We are seeing no cats after traveling over 100 miles of wilderness. We feel we need to save the females right now so we have something left. We do need to have a reasonable management plan in the future and agree that somewhere down the road we kill female's and issue permits to do so. This year it has got so bad that we have outfitters and individuals coming from out of state and killing 80 lb cats because that is all they can find. We are just trying to slow things down and get the Utah Fish & Game to change their mindset in just slaughtering them so there is nothing left. I sure do understand your thought process though!
sheba
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby sheba » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:01 pm

It ain't the DWR killing lions it the houndsmen!! The DWR can manage them any way they want but it is the houndsmen killing them. And you guys better be damn careful about how you approach and work with the DWR or you will lose everything!!!.

Lots of rumblings in the DWR about reducing seasons, closing pursuit after quota filled, moving split season quote open to Feb 1 etc.


So you guys better play it smart!
Neff
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby Neff » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:23 pm

Sheba,
If I did not know any better it sounds like you are making threats. Are you an employee of the UDWR?
Dead Cats Don't Make Tracks.
bladeggc40
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby bladeggc40 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:45 pm

WOW !!!! I agree with neff.
Sheba you sound upset.
tails up & wagin, going down the road

James
Neff
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby Neff » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:49 pm

In Utah as of 4/17/12 there have been 301 Lions harvested, out of the 301 Lions, 105 of those have been females. I believe that is more than adequate.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/cougar/pdf/cougar_harvest.pdf
Dead Cats Don't Make Tracks.
Magnet
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby Magnet » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:38 pm

@ Sheba...I do not really care about the Utah DWR mismanging or changing any of the rules as they have already slaughtered the deer, pheasants, turkey's in my area and all the trophy elk. Now they are slaughtering the Bear and the Lions so once they are done killing all of our Utah Game maybe they will have to get rid of some of their people that have failed the people and wildlife of Utah so miserably. (Just my personal opinon not the clubs).
Last edited by Magnet on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UtahMule
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby UtahMule » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:31 pm

40% + females average age around 2 sounds like a healthy population
Bplott
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby Bplott » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:56 am

Sheba if you think what the dwr does with managing permit numbers is the way things should be done you obviously have you head in the sand...... anytime we are harvesting more then 20% females we are hurting a species.... no matter weather its deer, elk, bear, lion, or WHATEVER BUT the dwr will continue to make it legal to over harvest females because more tags equal more money in the states pocket..... only true HOUNDSMEN can make the difference by not harvesting females so we can bring some lion population back in this state.....further more when the average age of lions harvested in the state is. only 2yrs old this is flat unexceptionable ...... UTAH used to be a trophy lion state..... well i guess sence the deer hunter are happy with shooting a 2point buck, lion hunters should be happy with a 2yr old female lion NOT!! Boys and Girls if houndsmen dont take this to heart and qiut shooting females the wont be any lion left!! Why the hell ruin out own sport!!
IF IT SQUATS TO PEE, LET IT BE....
mojo
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby mojo » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:33 am

Sheba work with the DWR? Sorry we as tax payers don't have the money the SFW has!!!
Magnet
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby Magnet » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:51 am

Well said bplott...Can people really be that ignorant?
I can not believe people that make comments when they do not have any clue to what has just happened.
@Mule Deer...do you really think we could take 40% of our mule deer doe's and expect that would be healthy for the deer popualtion? If you do you should be qualified to work the the Utah fish and wildlife! I have hunted Utah for almost every Big Game animal in my 40+ years of hunting. I refuse to particapate with the slaughter of mule deer anymore. Just quit hunting them in hopes to give them a chance. I have a place in the mountains and watched a spike buck try and take care of the breeding of over 30 does on my property this year. This used to be 4pt & 5pt bucks doing this. The deer have to move on to my property during hunting season to have any chance of survival during the deer hunt.
We are just trying to wake people up to how this state has been managed. I would like to see this state manage wildlife in such a way that my grandkids could visit the mountains and actually see a diverse group of Big Game animals. That is just not going to happen. That is a sad fact.
Last edited by Magnet on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Neff
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby Neff » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:36 pm

Very well said Bplott. Could not agree more.

I believe this particular post is for groups and orginizations in Utah. So if you dont like it, move on, perhaps post something under your own state.

From the sounds of it people of the other States should probably get involved and try to do something in there areas.

Thanks
Dead Cats Don't Make Tracks.
black eye
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby black eye » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:37 pm

Sheba,
Your right the houndsmen are the ones pulling the trigger not the udwr.
I think the time has come and most houndsmen know this fact.

At the houndsmens "town hall meetings" that fact is being addressed. Our own accountability in the field.

My question is why would the udwr be offended by houndsmen having our meetings?
Every other group has had them and so has the udwr. No group has had anything good to say about any management in Utah. The udwr approval rating is very low! The udwr cant do their job as the big $$$$$$ rules their recomendations. Follow the big $$$$$ that is what has got us where we are. UDWR must change as well!

As far as the threats I dont believe any of that scares houndsmen as that is just around the corner. The udwr has used radical "emergency orders" and other desperate measures with zero results. Nothing would surprise the houndsmen of Utah.

The wildlife board ordered a study of the direct link between cougar predation on mule and mule deer survival. Why didnt they do something like that 15 years ago when they started the cougar killing? Like when the Monroe study was happening. Maybe because they dont want to manage cougars?

The reason for disrespect for the udwr is simple 15 plus years of aggressive cougar harvest ZERO results for the mule deer population, and the newly revised cougar harvest plan is the most aggressive yet!!

Consider this houndsmen of Utah this winter was a poor winter for snow for sure. 300 dead lions could have been 370 easily!!!

WE MUST CHANGE OUR WAYS!!

Just my opinion, no reflection of the UHA.
If you're not offending idiots, you might be an idiot.- Ted Nugent
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Neff
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Re: Help save our Bears and Lion from the slaughter by Utah

Postby Neff » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:42 pm

Sheba,
We as Houndsmen in the State of Utah are coming together to make a difference, I and many others are tired of being pushed around.

Utah Houndsmen Find a Town Hall Meeting in your area. It is certainly time to come together.
Dead Cats Don't Make Tracks.

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