Foxdogs

[perk]

I don't track hunt or rig. I turn em loose and walk them the direction I want to hunt them, they will cast down the path ahead of me or woods around me. Usually how vocal I am talking to them dictates how far away they will hunt from me. Years ago I had dogs that casted far, then I hunted for years where I kept them reigned in tighter and struck most tracks out of path. I have a happy medium right now it seems, sometimes they hunt a little farther than I want and when I haven't struck anything all morning I think they are hunting too tight lol. But yes my style is more cast them than rig or track hunt.

[lawdawgharris]

I see. I like a cast dog, that’s how we hunt our hogs here. You said your dogs have the run to catch mind set. I assume that means they are pretty hard on game if they catch up to it on the ground?


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[perk]

They are more catch than bay dogs. And once something's caught, if your carrying it out the woods they will try to flip or drag it out your hands. But I only run fox and cats.... Some other trashy things I've caught on accident over the years hear and there, like a raccoon, didn't walk away either

[perk]

They are just grade foxhounds no papers, nothing super, but have suited me for years.

[lawdawgharris]

Don’t sell them short Perk. I don’t know how they would work in other geographical regions, but I know their pretty fair hounds in your region or you wouldn’t have spent so much time using them. Papers don’t make’em good, results do. I like the sound of your dogs. It’s funny but you can listen to dog people talk and know pretty quick who is subject to have the better dogs of a particular discipline. Those folks have a very detailed taste and are use to a particular standard. Because of that, their dogs are always progressing to be able to maintain those two things.


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[perk]

Heck I ain't selling them short, I don't sell anything at all so I don't need to hype them up or stretch the truth, they are just dogs that work in my area. No one much around me fox or cat hunt, a lot of deer dogs and foxpen hunters/field trials, all the deer hunters seem to hunt that field trial style dog now bc that's mostly what's being bred or for sale, the guys in the southeastern part my state who catch a lot of fox and cats tend to like a different style of hound than I raise. The one old guy I swapped pups with locally sold out last year so I kinda got this stock of dogs on my own, my daddy and I raise what we wanna hunt, and it suits us. Not looking to be famous, and definitely not internet famous, i stay off social media. I think the guys who prob have the better dogs are the ones who hunt the most or have the most game to hunt. But these I raise usually work out for me, I like to raise and start pups, biggest issue is finding people to give pups too, outside broke dog fox/cat hunting is a dying sport here in my area

[lawdawgharris]

Perk, that sounded like I wrote that for you. This is as close to social media as I get. It’s hard to find quality people that are quality hunters. Hog hunting definitely isn’t dying out around here. Seems like there’s a “hog dog” under every tree. You are exactly right about what it takes to make a good dog, game and hunting them. I was listening to Dan Braman talk on a podcast. He said he hunts cats to catch them not chase them. I think that has an impact on people’s dog choice too. As you said, your dogs run to catch, but so many people anymore seem to be one of three things. They either don’t know the difference, are too old to care about the catch as long as they get to hear a good race, or they’re too lazy to want to go to caught game. It’s just easier to sit at the truck and speculate. I have a good but small circle of people that hunt this family of dogs I started. They use to be my family of dogs but I consider them our family of dogs now. My nephew has been hunting with me since he was 4. He’s a big part of where my dogs are now.


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[perk]

My brother's son goes with me all the time and everywhere, he comes with me to florida a couple times a year when I go there to hunt with buddies for a week at a time. He been coming out there since he was little, it's a big help to have fresher legs than mine when I need it! I lucked up into a good stock of dogs from multiple breeders 25 yrs ago when I got back into fox hunting, did it as a child then my dad sold out, when I was old enough to have my own I started back and my dad got back into it with me, he my brother and myself hunted all the time and had a few good buddies we hunted with, who happened to be best dog men in my general area. So i've had alot of good influences over the years. Meeting and becoming close with Finney Clay and the Clay family also helped me alot learning about line breeding and selecting dogs. I grew up in a breed good dog to good dog world, my crosses have gotten a lot tighter in last 15 years, but I'll still outcross no problem if to a good hound. Have helped multiple people get into the sport, no one stays in it, so if not for my nephew I would say there are no young me hunting deer proof hounds in my area.

[lawdawgharris]

I was the same with early influences. My dad was god with dogs and all but one of my hunting buddies was old enough to be my dad or granddad. I sure miss those guys. They sure took a lot of valuable knowledge with them. I’m 53 and now I’m the older guy in the crowd. It’s nice to have young guys for sure. I got lucky in getting the dog I based this family of dogs off of. I was fortunate to get the right females too. He was the best dog I’ve ever owned and I’ve had some pretty nice ones over the years. I only ever hunted with one dog that I thought might have been as good. That dog was the one that set the bar for me. The only difference in the two dogs was that the other dog had more bite than my Clyde dog. Depending on the situation, that could be good or bad. The other dog (Spook) was a bluetick/catahoula and Clyde was treeing walker/ catahoula. Back then everyone just called the present day catahoula a leopard dog. I think there was a difference honestly. Both dogs knew where to hunt. They were never wasting time. Both dogs could work a pretty cold track or wind from way out. Both were really fast track pushers. Both had all the stay in the world be it in a race or staying bayed. You didn’t come behind them and find hogs. They found the closest hog. If it was 20 feet from the truck or a mile and there was only one, it was a found hog. Both were super intelligent and couldn’t be hunted enough. Their work ethic was through the roof. They would keep finding hogs as long as you would let them. If my Clyde dog was still there when you started tying a hog, one of two things had happened. He was either roughed up by the hog and was mad wanting to put teeth in it or another dog found it and he was mad and wanting to make it pay for not hiding better. He was competitive!!! I loved those two dogs even though I only owned Clyde. When I would go the guys house that owned Spook, I would go out and see Spook before I went inside to visit with him. I sure wish I could’ve bred daughters out them back to those two dogs. Spook’s legacy died with him. He was never bred but once and she was sometimey at best. The pups just average, which was a compliment to him in my opinion because of what I thought she was. As for Clyde, all my dogs go back to him. My Outlaw dog is one of my favorite dogs I’ve ever raised and the biggest reason for I believe is that he is so much like my Clyde dog in so many ways.


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[perk]

Having a good dog or stock of dogs to build from is a nice thing, all of mine go back to 4 different males, or more so now a combination of their off spring. I lucked into some good stock years ago and have tried hard not to let it go. I did have another line I was breeding and lost due to an infertile male, a cross that didn't work, a gyp who stopped coming in heat, and me waiting too long to breed a couple gyps before they died. I've often had a problem breeding younger gyp bc I like to hunt them, so I'd let them get late in life , out of their prime and raise them, usually small litters. Turns out it's a dangerous game sometimes bc old gyps raise small litters, dead gyps don't raise any. That infertile male really hurt my feeling, most complete dog I've ever owned, bred him to a dozen gyps only ever got 1 pup.

[lawdawgharris]

Man that’s terrible to not get any more pups out of him than that. I’ve made the same mistakes Perk. Not anymore though because I know these dogs and their tendencies well enough, as soon as gyp shows me a few key things in the woods, I get a litter out of her and then I start hunting her hard. I don’t feel like they have to be a “finished dog” for me to have a good idea about what their potential is. This can be a here today gone tomorrow sport for sure. I don’t mind a 4,5,6 puppy litter though, I won’t lie. That’s easier on me and the momma dog.


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[perk]

Yeah it's a shame but the only 2 options are keep moving forward or quit! I still have the other stuff I been breeding for years and lucky to have some of the stuff Finney Clay bred for years, so I still got plenty of stock worth breeding, or at least enough to suit my needs. It is just easier if ya have others close to share with, you can know how the entire litter turned out. We all have different ideas on what a dog can do, if I know how a man hunts and judges I can tell more about the quality of the pup than if it is someone I don't know their hounds, perspective and how they judge. I find one of the biggest issues giving pups to guys who you aren't close hunters with is getting a common vocabulary, lots of things mean different to others. Had a discussion a couple months ago about what the word 'special' meant when describing a dog. He used it a lot more loosely than I.

[lawdawgharris]

You are exactly on point with that Perk. I’ve been around some of those Clay dogs that my buddy has. I really like their dispositions. They aren’t quarlsome or ill in any way that I’ve seen. They seem to handle well, at least around his place anyway. The ones I can picture in my head right now hand a lot of leg under them. I like a leggy hunting dog. A lot of people think that equates to being big. I have some smaller dogs myself but they are leggy still. I guess it’s another example of the difference in peoples definitions of different terms and words in the dog world. I learned years ago to try and keep the dogs I couldn’t as close as I could and to hunt with them when I could. Don’t assume the individual sees what you see even if you agree on terminology. For instance a really close friend called and told me that they thought they were going to move a dog they got from me as a weanling. I asked why and they said they didn’t think the dog was dog a good enough job of finding hogs. He hunts hard and always at the bays but he’s only found hogs a couple of times. I said are you serious? He’s 14 months old! This friend had two lead dogs that were as good of hog dogs as anyone around had. I mean very very good dogs! I said you are putting pup down with not one but two dogs that are as about as good and well rounded dogs as they come and you expect that he’s going to strike/bay in front of those two? Not going to happen. Start casting him first and holding them back and see if he doesn’t go show you hogs. Sure enough he he came on.


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[perk]

Those clay dogs were judicially bred as any I know of, the breeding since Mr Finney passed, and esp the last few yrs has been not bred as judicially, with some crosses of things not necessary just to make pups to 'see' what they become. They do have some room for improvement in traits, some of the areas have been improved upon (conformation issues), an area or 2 are still lacking in my opinion ( mouth, and desire to actually kill not just bay) but these are things that weren't on the forefront of what Mr Clay was breeding for, he had killed thousands of cats and was only concerned about the race (which is the best part). However when hunted in my pack those traits arent as noticable due to the qualities of what I been breeding for years, that line and what I hunt cross well, and compliment each others weakness when hunted as a pack, I feel. Then again others may not feel that way, I'm a small fish in big ocean, and am very content staying in my little lagoon.

[lawdawgharris]

The number of good families of dogs that faded away after the creator is gone is very high. It goes back to different people having different standards and a different eye. Many don’t have the strength or ability to make the hard decisions that these people have made to create the line.


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