Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

A place to Talk about Fox Hunting and Running Dogs.
perk
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Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby perk » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:59 pm

How do you guys decide when to breed a gyp, or buy a new pup? How do you decide which pup to keep or buy out a litter? Do you cull something before you get new pup, or wait to see how pup will turn out? When you get a pup do you have to let something go for numbers reasoning? How many pups are you willing/comfortable starting in a season. What age do you give up on quality young dog making the grade? Just wonder how other hunters see things and do it, don't gotta be a Fox Hunter to answer all answers are welcomed and appreciated?
'If the hounds dont catch him on top, It doesnt count'
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby pegleg » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:03 am

That's quite a list of questions. All I can say is breed no younger then 2 1/2 and pick the litter then grab the pup that suits you. I don't cull made dogs. If they do it I let them until age injury or death stops them in most cases. But it seems to take me longer to finish dogs to my liking then most guys. I don't count dogs as often as I'm told I should. I do try and set my packs late summer and keep them that way through the season . I will mix them if I have questions or need comparisons.
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby perk » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:44 am

Thanks for the response pegleg. I don't generally ever breed a gyp til she's at least 4-5, sometimes even older because I hate to take my best dogs out my pack. Never been a real system to figure out which pup I pick, generally prefer females so I chose them more often than not. Had people over the years give me all kinds of wisdom on how to pick pups, from pick ones that have a knot in their head, largest tail hole, to highest number of whiskers under their chin as a pup, 1 whisker sorry, 2 is usable, more than 3 gonna be a great dog, not sure where the old man got that but I just laugh sometimes thinking about things that people are convinced of. I generally keep dogs that I hunt til they did, if they been good usable dogs, dogs that don't make my grade normally leave before their 3rd birthday, I like to give them a chance, but if I ain't seeing enough contribution they need to go of course. I don't cull dogs in anticipation of a new arrival, can't count chickens before they are hatched
'If the hounds dont catch him on top, It doesnt count'
'Day Light and Eye Sight DONT LIE!'
EGO is not your AMIGO
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby scrubrunner » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:01 pm

I logged on to tell you just how I do it but then trying to figure out how to start this, I discovered I've never really ever known what I am doing. But I want some pups at all times to mess with. Also want some young dogs that are developing.
I will breed a female that is young like around 2 yrs old if she is coming on like she could develop into something better than what I've already got. But mostly breed older proven females. As far as the male goes, I try to breed to the best male I can get too, whether it's in my pen or somebody else's. I have bloodlines that I like but if I think somebody might have something better I'll try it. I know all y'all will say I'm crazy but several yrs ago I had a 14 month male that was doing such an outstanding job, I bred 2 females to him. He was the best hound of that age I have ever seen and wanted to try to get more of it if possible before something happened to him. And it did, a gator ate him befor he was 1 1/2 yrs old.
Got a go, I'll ramble on a little more later unless y'all tell me to shut up.
Have a happy Thanksgiving to all and hope that God has blessed each of you as much as He has me.
Last edited by scrubrunner on Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby dwalton » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:03 pm

Great topic: I breed only when I want a pup out of a dog that I think is better than what I have except an accidental breeding once in a while which can turn out better than what I choose[ something to think about]. I like to keep at least 4 pups from a breeding but would like to keep them all. The best breeders of good bobcat dogs that I know keep all of them and cull heavy. The dogs they hunt are a big step above most bobcat dogs. It is hard to get a pup from them unless you are a friend. People breed for different reason, to get a pup out of old so and so, to sale pups or for themselves to improve what they have. So when one chooses a pup look at why they are breeding and what they are breeding. I breed a female as soon as she is proven that she warrants it. I know of one breeder that raises outstanding dogs that pulls the best female from a litter once she is proven and never hunts her again so not to lose her. If you can get a dog from them it is outstanding. I don't like to keep a dog that is not worth breeding and it make take several years to see that. That said people that end up with one usually are very happy with what they get. As far as culling that can be at 8 weeks to three years just depending on the dog. I will keep and hunt some dogs that I won't breed if they have outstanding traits but a fault that is not good but will not take away from me catching cats. I will cull a dog that is a good dog that is not a bobcat dog for me but will make a lion or bear dog. Raising a pup is one of the most missed opportunity for making a good dog for most people. Lots of time with that pup, tone train at about four months old for obedience. I don't start a pup running until he is ready and can keep up with the older dogs 6 months to a year log depending on that individual pup. I don't keep slow trailing dogs to hold a pup back,I don't hunt them with a grumpy dog in the box or anywhere. In fact I don't run my dogs with other people with very few exceptions. And I don't let them get chewed up by game. In fact I never let my dogs on game. I never encourage a dog to tree, I want to see the natural tree dogs not one taught to bark up on command, not saying that does not have it's place just not in my breeding program. I could go on and on, how to pick a pup ect.... Remember this is just my opinion and how I think it should be done. What every works for you is just fine. Have a good holiday season. It time to hit the woods. Had a fun race yesterday maybe Mic will post a story about it with pictures. Good luck with your pups. Dewey
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby SASS » Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:22 am

Man thats a good post Dewey, a lot of good info to think about in there.
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby davidg1! » Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:08 pm

Great topic, great post Dewey :beer :beer
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby scrubrunner » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:44 am

I also enjoyed your post Dewey.
Funny you should mention accidental breedings. I am running 2 deer dog puppies off of 2 littermate fox hounds that I gave a hunting buddy. Went by his house 1 day and there were these pretty Walker pups running around his fenced in yard, said he didn't have the heart to do away with them. I told him, I don't have any deer dog pups to fool with this year I'll try a couple of them for deer dogs, I got rid of all my deer dogs except 2 before deer season ended last year.
They were 10 months old when deer season opened Nov. 8 and went the first time they were turned out. I just got home from 8 days of hunting, they are both slap wore out, sore and 1 has pulled some pads. I put out on tracks, my old dog with the coldest nose and 1 of the pups, when they start opening the other 1in the truck raises cane and gnaws on the bars. Also free casted all 4 several times, they stayed with the old dogs until game was jumped or I caught them up.
When it comes to breeding dogs sometimes you never know, these come from a good family of hounds but their mama couldn't stay in a fox race with the rest of our dogs, my buddy doesn't have her anymore but I think these pups may make it, starting to regret not putting them in my fox/cat hound pack.
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby Goose » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:38 pm

Scrub runner what state do you live in?


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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby scrubrunner » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:08 pm

Goose, Sent you a personal message.
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby julio25 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:36 am

When deciding what I am going to breed I like to try to stay along the same bloodlines. I just try not to get to tightly bred. I am not afraid to try something new if I see something I like or that I think will improve things. At times though I feel like it is all an educated guess at best. Sometimes, maybe an uneducated guess. I like to be able to keep the whole litter after they are whelped but that isn't always possible because I also do not like being overloaded. If I do have to get rid of some very young pups I try to observe them for awhile to decide which ones to move. It is hard to put into words what pushes my decision on whether to keep them or let them go. Especially at that young age. I like independent pups that show a little bit of spunk but that also like attention and aren't shy. By the time they are ready to be started (usually 7-8 months old) I want them to know what the tone means and to know their names. I consider them started once they are running in the fox pen on their own and showing improvement at a pretty steady pace. Once they are being hauled on the outside I like to see the drive to stay in a race with grown dogs. If they aren't in the right place they better be making arrangements to get there. I like a dog that hustles. There are numerous reasons to cull a dog and everybody has their own personal quirks about what they will/will not put up with. Babbling and barking behind are two things that I will not put up with. One of the biggest traits I look for in all of them is BRAINS. If they do not have it between the ears then a lot of the rest of it will not matter much. All of this being said, I am still a long way from where I want to be in regards to the pack of dogs I am hunting and there a days I think I know a little bit then there are days that I realize that I don't know much at all.
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby undertheradar » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:06 pm

scrubrunner wrote: I think these pups may make it, starting to regret not putting them in my fox/cat hound pack.


Its never too late...
Yall may think I'm crazy but if a dog has never ran a deer how can you be sure he's broke? I want the young dog that can flat out punish a deer. If he cant run the absolute piss out of a deer, chances are they cant run a fox as good as the deer. I'll just break them off the deer and know he CAN scald a piece of game until he's broke from the deer.

I too think like Julio. I want a pup that has tight feet, moves good and is not the least bit shy. I'm not going to beat my head against the wall thinking about which pup too keep. Because deep down, If there is ANYTHING I don't like about the pup, I will never like him, and he will never have a chance. That's a personal thing it took me years to find out about myself. Its just like first impressions about people you meet, you don't know exactly what it is about someone but you're either drawn to them or you're not.

As stated above, now with the Alpha collars, I don't cull for deer running, its way to easy to break them off. I want my young dogs to come on strong and progress. If they consistently behind or bark out of place I move em. I also don't like a dog that "comes around" too much in a race. I like fast track running with a little drifting but no swinging.
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby scrubrunner » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:26 pm

Undertheradar, I'm right there with you on everything you said except that it's not too late to put the pups with the fox/cat dogs. I've got 3 sons that love the deer running and they'd pout like babies. They were already fussing about me getting rid of all the deer dogs but 2 last year.
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby undertheradar » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:28 pm

I got two 10 yr old girls who get attached to every pup I keep. I know what you're talking about. So every 6 to 8 months we go through the same thing. However, as bad as I hate to hurt their feelings, I'm in this to be successful so I cant let a 10 yr old hinder my decisions when it comes to keeping or culling. Damn that sounds terrible! but it is the truth!
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Re: Breeding. Raising, starting, culling

Postby macedonia mule man » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:42 pm

Undertheradar, explain the difference between drifting and swinging and the need for both to keep game moving.

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