nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Talk about Cougar Hunting with Dogs
david
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by david »

cfanno01 wrote:I am considering a planning a lion hunting trip (snow only), hopefully within the next 2 or 3 years, and am looking for some helpful information. I would be taking my own dogs from Michigan (bobcat and coyote). I am assuming they will run a lion also...? I've never been west of the Mississippi so I really don't know what to expect. What states offer good opportunities for nonresidents? I've heard Montana and Wyoming? Not looking to kill a world record lion...i want to go for the experience more than anything but wouldn't mind the chance at killing one. Since i would be unfamiliar with the area, I would like to find a region that has ample accessibility via roads or snowmobile... i want to stay as close to the dogs as possible. Also would prefer to go where the wolves are somewhat scarce. Timber would be better than open terrain (I think??) being my dogs have no experience with lions and I would prefer somewhere lions usually tree instead of bay. I'm not looking for specific hunting grounds, just general recommendations and advice. Any info would be very helpful and appreciated.
I, like you, am not a lion hunter, but I have treed them in a few different states, with combinatoion dogs that were hunted on bobcat.

If your dogs have done well on bobcat in the snow, in my experience, they will do very well on lion in the snow. In fact, bobcat hunters coming from the Great Lakes areas to hunt lions are sometimes disappointed at how easy it can be for their dogs.

If you have a couple years to prepare, this would be my best advice: try to buy, borrow, or develop a dog that is CHECK BROKE off canines. You only need one that will refuse to go on coyote or wolf.

It is possible you would find a hot lion track in perfect conditions. But it would severely limit you if you require this because of coyote dogs.

In my limited experience, so much of snow lion hunting is cold trailing the cat followed by a jump, followed by a very short race, followed by a tree. Also so much of my experience with coyote races is cold trailing the cat followed by a jump, followed by a coyote race that blows up any chance of catching a cat that day (and maybe that trip).

You might only find one lion track that is workable. You might only get one day during your time off work where the conditions are favorable. You might work your guts out for a week to find that one track. In my opinion, you need that one dog you can rely on to stay hooked on that cold track no matter what. Then, you will have control and then you will know what is going on. You will have different options for strategy. You could send him alone until the jump, or send him with one other dog that would be unlikely to break on its own, or send him with the pack, and fry them if they jump something he won't honor.

If you don't want to do the breaking yourself, I think you could buy a dead broke (check broke) cold trailing coon dog who was young enough for you to get him started on bobcats before you go; for a reasonable price. If you can't afford to keep him then sell him when you get back, and you will have him pictured with a lion, and a couple Michigan bobcats, as a broke coon dog and started cat dog.

Myself, I just would not enjoy the experience very much if every time my dogs jumped off a cold cat track I would have to wonder what it was, and wonder if I might loose my dogs for the day (or days) unless I stopped them; while at the same time wondering if I was about to shock them off the only lion jump of my trip.

I am not saying don't go unless you can do this. Go and learn a ton and have fun doing things however you can. I am just saying I myself would have a hard time enjoying those circumstances.
david
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by david »

Rshcwisdom wrote:I didn't recommend Idaho because they only issue like 60 non resident hound hunter permits a year.
It is true. Sorry for doubting your motives. I shouldn't do that. But I have applied and had 100% success on the two times I tried. Also, if I remember right, (which I am not sure if I do), on certain less desirable units, any one who applies will be granted. ( again, I can't remember exactly how that worked, and things sure could have changed since then.)
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by Beebout-it »

David I agree completely with what you said. In the mountains chasing lions usually once you start a lion race there more than likely won't be any roads to get closer to your dogs to be sure they are still chasing the cat. And I think a coyote race in the mountains could be endless...You shoot the coyote by cutting them off ahead of the dogs right?
cfanno01
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by cfanno01 »

Thanks for the advice david, I sincerely appreciate your honest help with my situation. As far as cold trailing lion, I think my best option would just be to walk with my dogs until it gets fresh enough to where I don't think they would break from it, then tell them to go. My dogs will come to me if I call them off as long as they can hear me, whether they are cold trailing or 10ft behind a jumped yote, they handle like house dogs. I am leaning towards the black hills area of Wyoming, it looks as if there are a couple of units up there and one of them has not hit its quota yet (feb 6 2017 updated), according to the fish and game website. I am hoping I have an opportunity to hunt this area before the quota is met, otherwise Ill be looking elsewhere. From the info I've received, I've concluded that wolves are not a problem here??

Thanks to everyone who was willing to help with MT, ID, and others. From the info I have received from you guys, I have learned the wolves would most likely be problematic for me.

My second choice would be NV, which is much further from me and looks a little iffy as far as having reliable enough snow to plan a trip. I could watch the weather and make it happen if I had to tho, and am still interested in info on NV. I assume its out of wolf territory??

Thanks again to everyone
Chad
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by cfanno01 »

Yes, you typically try to cut the yote off at a road. Sometimes you can wait till the dogs catch it, but this doesn't always happen. If there is deep powder snow, it is likely my dogs will catch up to the yote. Otherwise with limited roads, it could be a real long day
BAR BAR 2
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by BAR BAR 2 »

The Hunt Ares you are referring to in the Blackhills of Wyoming do have lions, but they lack good access due to private land. And most of that private land is leased to outfitters, or is already being hunted by resident houndsmen who have been cultivating relationships with the ranchers for many years. Hunt Area 1 is also in the Blackhills and does have easy access, but it usually hits the harvest limit, or quota fairly quickly once the snow starts to fall. You should also be made aware that legislation is going through now that will allow for the implementation of a nonresident sub-quota in Hunt Area 1. When that is put into place, the allowable harvest and hunt time will be limited for nonresidents.

I would suggest that you start trying to build some relationships with houndsmen who hunt in the states you are considering. Don't be surprised to find it somewhat difficult though, as many houndsmen get protective of the areas they like to hunt. If you are interested, I would invite you to join the, Wyoming Federation of Houndsmen, Facebook page. You will meet alot of good people there and perhaps someone could help steer you in the right direction.

Tex Adams, President
Wyoming Federation of Houndsmen
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by Fireman03 »

All the lions in the Blackhills of wy have went south for the winter. And for the young inexperienced one's(100# or less) they were killed by non residents. So I'd definitely consider Mt. Most of the eastern part don't have wolves, so you'll be ok
cfanno01
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by cfanno01 »

Fireman03, I'm one person attempting to experience a once in a lifetime trip...I'm not going to decimate your local lion population. I would welcome any of you who have helped me to MI to harass some yotes anytime. This is a critical time to stick together if we want to conserve our sport.
cfanno01
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by cfanno01 »

And if there isn't wolves in eastern Montana and decent lion hunting opportunity, I'm definitely not opposed to it...I'm just going off the limited resources I have available to me since I've never seen that part of the country and don't know anyone who lives in the west.
Thanks again to those providing honest help. It is more valuable than you probably think.
Chad
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by Fireman03 »

Your preaching to the choir bud. I'm part of the wy federation of houndsmen and have been working hard with others to preserve our sport. I have no problem with out of staters as I am one every now and then. But what does bother me is we experience a lot of houndsmen coming to our state and not having any sort of etiquette and killing shit right off the tit just so they can kill something. This not only ruins our population and chances at trophy animals but also closes the season to us houndsmen that just like to see our dogs work. If your intentions are just to kill then keep your ass home. If they are to be a true houndsmen which may include passing sub adults, then come on out to the Cowboy state
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by Henefer-hound-hunter »

I know if I allowed my dogs to run coyote we would never finish a lion track, because they would cross atleast three fresh coyote tracks before they got to the lion. Hell they trash on yotes every now and again even knowing they will get fried. Hopefully your dogs prefer cats over coyotes:) I live in northern Utah and I'm not sure what the regs are for out of staters. Idaho has lots of opertunities and it's really accessible but Between me and my buddy we have only drawn a hound handlers permit once in three years. I'm not sure about Nevada never hound hunted there, but have seen lots of lion tracks while coyote hunting, and yes central and northern Nevada usually has snow all winter. Good luck!

Cam
david
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by david »

Tex, you and Fireman should work with the state of Wyoming on getting Area 1 reserved for non-residedent hunters only (so all the expert residents don't fill the quota so fast). It is like hunting in a park, ranchers want the quota raised, elevation is not too high so flat landers can breath, good roads, some pretty bobcats, mostly all National Forest. There are even a few coon there so the guys can throw down on them if they get frustrated with the lion hunting.

There must be about 40 states that don't have lion hunting. This would give everyone a chance at it. It is the closest place for most of them. You could advertise in all those states for houndsmen to bring their hounds and come have a great time. You could probably figure out how to raise money off the army of houndsmen, and gain support for the sport of lion hunting with hounds. You could require them to join the Wyoming Federation of Houndsmen. It's a win-win.

What do you think???

You know you like it! :D
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by BAR BAR 2 »

Uh, David,
Image

Try not to wear that big wooden spoon out with all that stuff you are stirring.


Tex
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by GVBEAR »

I agree with David on that or at least the Wyoming federation of houndsmen could do a course on trophy cats.

I don't think you can just blame all non residents are the ones shooting all the small cats and closing your quotas.

Chad, I have been West a couple times and one time I did bring dogs it's a amazing experience and worth it. In my opinion any time you can get the dogs working is worth it.

I found it most useful to just call the DNR office of the area you want to go because sometimes the websites are not very clear.
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Re: nonresident snow lion hunting trip

Post by BAR BAR 2 »

I literally just got off the phone with someone from the anti side of the aisle who suggested the same thing. I was just flipping a little shit David's way, but the idea does hold a lot of merit. The trouble is getting people to come to those classes or workshops. We are worming on the creation of some type of mentoring program that will help get younger houndsmen together with older hunters who can help teach them some of the do's and don'ts.

As to who is killing what. I have the actual data on that for several hunt areas. The numbers will move around some, but it is not always the nonresident hunters who are killing the females and sub-adults. There is plenty of room for education and changes in some of the practices, and that is where our organization hopes to make some improvement.


Tex
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