Runnin dogs???

[cobalt]

I think you're doing a great job of making your points, jcat. I, too think locate and tree are of the most important traits a cat dog must have. If a running dog is a little tougher or a little faster on track (hypothetically), I would gladly sacrifice that little extra for a crackerjack locater.
I for one have a hard time believing that hunters are having a hard time finding treebred dogs with drive or endurance or toughness, etc, etc. Maybe I'm just lucky at picking pups, but for the most part the outside coonbred pups that I have found to add in to what I have, have been tough, no quiting and even sometimes, pretty speedy, all by themselves, gamecatchers!! Not all, but many.
It is amazing what dogs can do if you just ask it from them and train them for the task at hand.
When I hunt my dogs, I get very upset sometimes at the holes I see in my dogs, then I hunt with others and realize how very nice my dogs are.

[1bludawg]

jcathunter,i think you articulated your points very well and i would have to agree with you.

[oconee]

Well everyone pretty much answered my question for me. I just couldn't think of having dogs in my pack the could not preform ALL the fundamentals of catching the game I was perusing . I just felt like the running dogs would be a liability at the end of a race and it appears most agree of they wouldn't be crossbreeding them with tree hounds. LOL I like my dogs to Catch the game and sometimes it goes up trees!!!!

I've heard stories about one of the most respected cat hunter on this board had a "great" dog that wouldn't tree a lick. HUH!!! Sounds like that dog would have hell catching a cat alone. Also another of the most respected openly admitted one his best cat dogs of all time couldn't catch a cat alone. Once again I've never even ran a cat but am wanting to get started and I just don't want to get into something that requires me to feed a bunch of "me too" dogs. I've never done that and WILL NOT START!!!! Glad to hear that's not necessary.

[kickemall]

Well everyone pretty much answered my question for me. I just couldn't think of having dogs in my pack the could not preform ALL the fundamentals of catching the game I was perusing . I just felt like the running dogs would be a liability at the end of a race and it appears most agree of they wouldn't be crossbreeding them with tree hounds. LOL I like my dogs to Catch the game and sometimes it goes up trees!!!!

I've heard stories about one of the most respected cat hunter on this board had a "great" dog that wouldn't tree a lick. HUH!!! Sounds like that dog would have hell catching a cat alone. Also another of the most respected openly admitted one his best cat dogs of all time couldn't catch a cat alone. Once again I've never even ran a cat but am wanting to get started and I just don't want to get into something that requires me to feed a bunch of "me too" dogs. I've never done that and WILL NOT START!!!! Glad to hear that's not necessary.

I agree with virtually everything that jcathunter has said in this thread but don't sell running dogs short. The right ones, and especially the right crosses with tree dogs, and you can have some fierce, do it all cat dogs. I prefer them to be pretty watered down, about a 1/4 or 1/8 running dog. It all depends on the type of dog you like.

[Flip]

In my opinion it takes a lot more time sorting through and making a cat dog from dogs that have a lot of running dog blood in them but when u get one U know it.tree bred dogs are easier to make an average cat dog out of. If a guy is just starting out they should probably stick with a tree bred dog unless you plan to run grey fox too

[al baldwin]

Oconee, good luck with cat hunting. However I believe as you gain experience cat hunting, you will find a hound that cannot do every thing needed to be a true solo cat hound, however, that hound will have so much to offer helping catch cats you will change your mind and keep the dog in your pack. As Kickemall says a little running dog mixed in can produce some very good cat hounds, when you find the cross that works. Would not recommend starting out with the running dog, most time, not always, they need a lot of experience before you can rely on those to be a locating tree hound on cat & some just never tree. Sure wish I was your age. Al

[fallriverwalker1]

darn al runningdogs aren't supposed to tre that's why ther e called running dogs / fiip irun straight reg dogs I catch as many fox as anyone who run's running dogs I can also catch a few cats along the way / oh not in cali anymore

[oconee]

With all due respect Mr. Baldwin I will not keep a dog as you described. It will have to preform ALL aspects of catching whatever game I pursue. I'm after quality dogwork, not bragging rights. That's how culls stay alive and get passed around!!!!

[cobalt]

I think the past four posts are golden knowledge with the exception of the last post by the owner of this thread, oconee. You ought to hear what Mr. Baldwin is saying. The pathway to being a good cathunter is paved with thoughts of perfection that are never fully achieved. Dogs that put you under trees esp. as a new cathoundman become priceless in your quest.

[Flip]

fall river good for u

[Spot]

I dont think a dog that catches a high percentage of the cats it jumps comes in any one color breed or line. The real deals are a gift to some extent. They dont always come from guys with a highly admired breeding program or stud dog. I believe that when a naturally talented dog comes along and ends up in the hands of a good hard hunter that is when you see a great dog whether you have bed it yourself or purchased the pup. I have seen tree dogs that cant finish a track or locate a tree just like i have seen running dog running dog crosses that cant. Find good hunters in your area that catch lots of cats and not just claim they do. Go see for yourself. There are a lot of self proclaimed cat hunters but the proof is in the tree or on the ground. Dont let fancy words and good typing abilities on here fool you. It sounded to me like you already had your mind made up on what direction you were going to go when you started typing. Seek advice but dont dismiss it so quickly. Good luck as you will need it as well as patience on the ride you are going to take. Have fun!

[Tim Pittman]

Hunted with quite a few cathunters/foxhunters in multiple states. Most [maybe not all] of these people who catch 100 plus cat or fox or cat/fox have running blood in their pack[in most of the dogs if not all]. Now we have to ask ourselves the question, is there something to this? I agree with most of you, no tree/no feed for the long haul, unless they are superior as a track dog, because I haven't see real good track dogs who couldn't figure out the track is over! These guys hunt hard and have found these dogs to be tough footed and hold up well physically. They also [good ones] open right on a cat, not overbarking, not running silent, and seem to hang up less than a lot of straight tree bred dogs. This all being said, I've tried and will continue to try registered dogs until I find what I'm looking for. I was close 4-5 years ago with some Finley River dogs I had shipped out here from Lonnie Mears. One female, pulled up short once in awhile in Deweys pack, he sold her because she could only take about 4 days of hard hunting. Mine came to the tree a little later[ about 18-20 months old] great desire,built great, great feet, good mouth[ sounded good, opened right] but 4 days and you could see something tied up in her hips. Tried supplements etc. ended up selling her, and yes she'd go no matter what, but couldn't run up after 4 days of hard hunting. The Turners in California, have produced complete dogs for years that are 5/8 running dog. But I've seen 1/4 bloods from others that had huge holes. Bottom line is most cathunters here and not on here could tell you they've had dogs make and not make it from about every hound breed/cross out there. Good topic, happy new year everybody.

[Flip]

Tim it's hard to explain a good running dog untell u own one. Most people don't think it's b.s. but so did I at one time. I have a little female that's 3/4 running dog that's the the best dog I ever hunted with on varmints. I know sonny and Jesse very well sonny tried to buy the dog from me several times. I also have several other ( what I call ) decent varmint dogs that are good fast track dogs and locate and tree well. Some are all most full running dog but have there quarks all in all I think it takes years to find a great running dog that has the hole package and I mean nose speed and locate ability. All my dogs are great track dogs but most people might have given up on where I've gotten years ago with these running dogs. I know I would have if I only ran cats and not fox

[coastrangecathunting]

Good reading guys. I think this thread is going to last awhile.

jc

[jcathunter]

Don't get me wrong, I've seen some running dogs that could flat lay it on a cat. Not just running but rig a cold track, push it, jump the cat and run him like they was tied to him. I just never saw one that could locate the way I wanted them to. Done correctly, putting running blood into tree dogs should produce some great stuff but I haven't seen it done recently in a manor that produced a dog that I wanted to keep. Again, it brings us back to the point that we all hunt the style of dog that we like. If a guy wants to put numbers on the board, throwing a running dog or two with a tree dog or two should produce just dandy but, myself, I've always been one to continually try (and fail ) to build a single, perfect dog that I can take out alone or with company and expect to see a cat. I love to see a dog unfold a tough track and, just like slowly turning up a volume knob, turn up the intensity as the track warms up eventually switching to a locate and rolling over into a nice solid tree bark. I don't mean the 100 bpm bark or even care if its 4 bpm as long as its solid as a rock and accurate. I want to know that they will be there until I get there.