Why Running and Running dog X are the best cat dogs

[slowandeasy]

Spot,

I'll go out on a limb and guess you know dogs as good as people!!!!



Take care,Willie

[oneguy828]

I have no intentions of making anybody mad simply stating my opinion. If I come across wrong I apologize. My number is 5414600242 I'd like to talk to any of you. I think maybe my point was lost in translation. Dewey call me I'd appreciate it. Same with you slowandeasy if it doesn't inconvenience you.

[dwalton]

oneguy828; You will never make me mad for stating your opinion. The original question was why people prefer running or running dog crosses. Everyone is entitled to their opinion it is just good to see the back ground and experience one has with hounds. I have met young hunters with a few years hunting that know a lot and old timers that have hunted a lot that know very little about hunting with hounds. Some back ground helps. Most of the real good bobcats hunters don't bother to share what they know. There are some top bobcat hunters in the Northwest that catch a lot of bobcats. Most all their dogs have running dogs in them. Any bobcat dog that is truly a bobcat dog is a good dog no matter the color or breed. There are some very good reason as mention that they have running dog blood in them.Not treeing is the problem with to much running dog blood, but it does no good to have a tree dog if it can not tree many bobcats for me. With every type of dog there are faults. I can live with a fault in a dog if it does not take away from me treeing bobcat. If has a fault that takes away from me catching bobcat it will not stay here long. Faults that for me are conformation, false treeing, not being able to run a cold track by that I mean run a cold track not hammer it out, not being able to be hunted 8 to 12 hours a day for weeks in a row, fighting,not being trainable, hunting to wide, ect... Not treeing is what most people have against running dogs but the guys that hunt them are the ones with the most bobcats at the end of the season. If you look far enough back in most hounds breeding you will find running dog blood. When you breed a dog for one thing you will lose others.Most peoples problems with any dog no matter what type of dog it is their inability to train the dog and get the most out of it. Hunt a dog that works for you and your ability. Thats why there are so many different types of dogs. Each to their own. I will give you a call sometime and truly I am always looking for a better dog but I know what works for me and my ability to get the most out of it. Dewey

[Tim Pittman]

Here's something I been kicking around. There's a guy here in Oregon breeding some good running dog crosses with impressive results. Without a name being pushed or an exact number to the tee, here's something I know for fact-- in a 90 day season catch 70-80 fox and half of those caught and killed on the ground! Beside the other varmints that were caught. Most chalk this up to--- Yeah right! The rest of us who are truly looking for better and better, go-- Wait a minute, I want some of this!! Because this ain't happening with old Blue and Velma and Tater and the others that don't possess the conformation or qualities in track style it takes to accomplish this sort of success. This takes brains,track style, use their mouth right, and soundness conformation to getr done. Have not seen any straight tree hounds do this yet !!! But realize they could be out there, just still looking for them. I'm lazy I guess, its been easier to find what I like in the crosses, within a 100 mile radius of me.

[oneguy828]

This is off topic but I suppose many of these posts have been. Why is it that running dogs seem to be used more in higher density cat population areas but not elsewhere? I am not saying they can't catch in eastern Oregon ,montana , Wyoming etc.. They just don't seem to be breed of choice like they are in western Oregon/Washington/California or the south.

[Dan Edwards]

I don't run cats but I do run coyotes with running hounds. When I first messed with them years ago I hated them. I didn't have a clue what I was doing at all. Now that I know a lil bit more I am 100% convinced that there is no better dogs for running and catching coyotes. My dogs couldn't tree cats though cuz they cant locate for chit. Hell they have a hard enough time figuring out when they tube a coyote. HAHA!

[kordog]

attention
; they just discovered some frozen semen from tennesee leed in an underground antique sod ice house . call 1 800 balanced hound and getcha ya some today.

[Dan Edwards]

attention
; they just discovered some frozen semen from tennesee leed in an underground antique sod ice house . call 1 800 balanced hound and getcha ya some today.

I'll pass. HAHA!

[Dads dogboy]

828 wrote,

"This is off topic but I suppose many of these posts have been. Why is it that running dogs seem to be used more in higher density cat population areas but not elsewhere? I am not saying they can't catch in eastern Oregon ,Montana , Wyoming etc.. They just don't seem to be breed of choice like they are in western Oregon/Washington/California or the south."

My guess is Availability.....there are not many Folks as dedicated or with the resources as Folks such as the Turners to INVEST in the Expense of bringing in Hounds from across the Country.

Secondly, that Ole Culture thing.....Grandpa did it, Pete down the road does it, and all are doing it with the Treebred Local Hounds, it was good enough for them, I am having fun with what I have, WHY Change.

And Last but not Least in these other regions most are hunting Multiple species of Game. Bobcat, due to Populations or Regulation being the Least Hunted of the Species. As has been Stated by Houndsmen such as the Lee's, and Mr. Roy McBride..."It is Easy to Catch a Lion or Bear with Bobcat Hounds; but not so easy to catch a Bobcat with Lion or Bear Hounds". Where you have MORE Bobcats and MORE SERIOUS Bobcat Hunters you Tend to find more Running Bred Hounds!

JMO!

[Unreal_tk]

Mr. Clay and the rest of the running gang. This is aimed at the breeders more than the hunters.

Out of a litter of say 10 pups how many will make the cut to tree and locate a cat by it self ?

Also I would be interested in the cross guys. What tree line did you add to what running line.

[Dads dogboy]

Thomas,

In several Posts I have told of Dad's results with Breeding in the last 10 or so years of his life. Only TWO Pups were destroyed due to problems with their Whelping....in the Birth Canal too long. They developed physically but not Mentaly.

Two others went Deaf after they were Two years old. Our Vet said this was probably due to an adverse reaction to a Vaccine. This is out of Aprox. 80+ Pups.

All of the other Pups made usable Hounds, some better than others, but all worth feeding.

Dad raised more litters in the last 7 or so years than normal as he was trying to help some others with Hounds.

As to the Truck to Tree...do it alone thing....I think My/Our Position is quite clear on this. In this Country it takes a Team to CONSISTENTLY Catch a Bobcat. It has been 5 years now since I made the offer to Someone, hell Anyone, bring Ole Super Hound here and show us how to consistantly Catch Bobcat with one Hound.

Our Offer remains Active even after Dad's passing because I am going forward with Breeding His Hounds, and I want to be the BEST Educated Houndsman that I can be. So Seeing that "Wonderhound" would be truly Wonderful. To date all I have heard are EXCUSES about time. money, Ole So & So is dead, you would not pay off, and any number of other ways for people to evade the opportunity to "Put Up or Shut Up".

[mark]

Thomas, i doubt you will get many answers. The guys that are having success breeding the running x dogs arent on this site and wont be. Also most of those guys dont sell many dogs if any outside of their circle. One thing that always ends up happening on these threads is that it doesnt take long to become about running dogs, not running dog x's. I dont know of anyone using straight running dogs out here with any success (dont know everyone though). I believe the key is the right amount and kind of running blood that you put into the right tree bred dog. I dont think anyone believes you just throw some running blood into any ol tree bred dog and get good results just as vice versa. It takes a good dog on both sides to work if it is going to. I have had good luck with Kemp dogs but i also have some running x dogs out of Wa. that do good also. I didnt just shit can all my tree bred dogs and go to running x dogs over night, it happened over a lot of years. I have owned some good tree dogs over the years and saw with my own eyes what the running x dogs brought to the table in my pack. I am NOT a legend as Willy says but i am smart enough to pay attention and check into hunters that i hear good reviews about. I go hunt with them if i can or at least talk on the phone with them and pick there brains. Its not hard to sort through the BS if your not grasping for someone to tell you what you want to hear. I am with Tim on the a availability of good tree bred dogs around here, i have researched a few of the most highly touted ones only to find that they dont work here or the people that own them cant get their full potential out of them. I just bought a tree dog puppy from a line of dogs that have been working good for guys, not because i cant catch a cat but because i am always open to something better. And im sure its out there somewhere. Im not a breeder and never claimed to be, but i would think that the purpose is to breed dogs to be better than their parents and if this true there shouldnt be so much talk about going back 20+ years to get into the good blood. The guys i know that are breeding running x dogs seem to be looking forward. This just my uneducated opinion and should not be payed attention to in any way!

[Dan Edwards]

As to the Truck to Tree...do it alone thing....I think My/Our Position is quite clear on this. In this Country it takes a Team to CONSISTENTLY Catch a Bobcat.

The only kinda dog I can see doing that in your country is some type of extremely fast squirrel dog and the cat track would have to be hot of course. Them lil bastards have the speed though to maybe handle it. They are amazing to watch but they of course have a lot of limitations.

[Unreal_tk]

Mark. I agree 100% with your post. My thinking of the ratio was more pointed towards you or Dewey than Mr. Clay. Because I'm sure you had to sort thru a bunch of dogs and years to get your product to what you want. Tree dogs can vary bit as a general rule can get it done as a basic need... especially to a beginner who might be able to have only one or two dogs and doesn't have help.

Mr. Clay,

Don't you guys ever have split races ? I would think every once in awhile you would and get two races out of the gig and there might be only one or two dogs who split. (Usually the same onery dogs!) Or are they over honoring and not picking up a 2nd race when it could be ?

What a #$&# storm ol Willie stirred!

[Dads dogboy]

Thomas,

I hope CRA will get on here and tell about his first Hunt with us....how for 25 minutes we enjoyed Bobcat races in Stereo.....Male Dogs running one....females running another.

During the Rut periods - Mid Jan through Mid March and then again Mid May through the end of May you can have simultaneous races. Several times in Florida we have had 3 going on at one time....each ended in a Caught Cat!



I am Editing this as I just went to my notes in the Journal from Feb. 2010. In Florida, right at the intersection of the two best roads in this Cub to Strike a Cat on, we hit a Sow and two Toms. Most of the Pack took the smaller Tom to the East. 4 Hounds took the Female to the North a short ways then running her in a Cypress Pond for thirty Minutes before Treeing her (Cherokee and China Treed her and I saw the Cat). Sandy took the Big Tom due South. We stayed with the 4 Hounds till they Treed, called them to the Truck then went to the Pack who now were ducking and Dodging their Cat in a Sog. Thanks to Garmin we were aware of what all the Hounds were doing all the time. We turned the 4 into this race and Caught this Tom on the ground in another 15 or so minutes.

Now to Sandy....the Garmin showed her over 2 miles South still running the Cat by herself after an hour. We drove to her and turned into the Palmetto Thicket she was running this Big Cat in. When the Cavalry arrived I wrote the ROAR commenced. We caught this 28lb Tom after another 45 minutes.

The Moral of this Tale is that Sandy did a Darn nice Job by herself, but in reality She was JUST following the Cat around. The Team arrived and the end was never in doubt!