Pure Camerons as Dryground Lion Hounds?

[liontracker]

If you don't think the old line walkers were the main influence in Jeff's old dogs why don't you take a couple of good Cameron blueticks or Duncan black and Tans by there and see if you can trade them for one of his Nance bred walker pups. LOL!


Sorry I couldn't resist, but knowing Jeff as long as I have I can see that big toothy grin on that big old rawboned Kanaber. LOL!

I can imagine that!

What were the names of those two old walker males, Amos and Ace, or something like that?

[Mike Leonard]

Ace was the orginal and he was all walker, and Hank was his son and he was also all walker. These dogs were the foundation of Jeff's old strain. Ye they did make a great cross on theat black half bloodhound female later in years but many man of these were pretty much straigh walker or some had a slight bit of redtick blood from Wiley Carroll at times. Jeff credited the Nance dogs and that is why he went on such a search to find the best of the blood left avaiaible. Jeff at one time owned both Topper Again and Centerfire Sampson.


Amos by the way was sired by Ace out of a full sister to Hank. He was the sire of my Booger dogs who was a great lion and bobcat dog for me and just died a few years ago after man years of great service to me. Boogers blood lives on as the sire of Molly who was the mother of Big Shirely.

[cougarhound]

Ace was the orginal and he was all walker, and Hank was his son and he was also all walker. These dogs were the foundation of Jeff's old strain. Ye they did make a great cross on theat black half bloodhound female later in years but many man of these were pretty much straigh walker or some had a slight bit of redtick blood from Wiley Carroll at times. Jeff credited the Nance dogs and that is why he went on such a search to find the best of the blood left avaiaible. Jeff at one time owned both Topper Again and Centerfire Sampson.


Amos by the way was sired by Ace out of a full sister to Hank. He was the sire of my Booger dogs who was a great lion and bobcat dog for me and just died a few years ago after man years of great service to me. Boogers blood lives on as the sire of Molly who was the mother of Big Shirely.

i hope with the old blue gascon and walker in my majestic he turns out great

[liontracker]

...and there's that Big Shirley name again.

[pegleg]

[quote="cobalt"]pegleg-So you think if Del gave his pups away there would be more cold nosed Camerons in the SW? And, I agree with you that some of the reg. English dogs are a good bet to do the job in the SW.

what i meant is why pay 5 X's the price for the same chance of performance? if all of the camerons where run through the desert before being selected and bred they would begin to lean towards those traits needed more. but if i have to sort through the wood pile I'd as soon start on a smaller ie less expensive one. do i dislike or discredit cameron hounds NOPE. it's just a case of name brands not really out performing the discount brand in this area

[hunt14]

Mike who has a real nice strike dog that is registered nance? Sampson does a fair job doesnt he?

What about Burton Oney and the Penny dogs? I know of some dogs that came from both of these men that were top strike dogs per Bert Emett but of course these dogs are dead and gone and we want to know about dogs that are alive and well that are making the grade.

Festus where are you man I know you have some input on this.

[liontracker]

Yeh, I noticed Ole Festus was trailing silent on this one!LOL

[killroy]

Many yrs ago when Brian Holt's dogs had thier first litter of pups I bought a male pup from him for two hundred dollars. I had the pup for a couple of days. The pup was so timid I took him back and Brian gave me my money back. A few months later I asked Brian what he did with the pup, he said he took him to Kanab and sold him to Jeff Allen. I'm not sure which one of the pups he was, but knowing how Samson and Topper turned out, I have kicked myself in the butt the last few years.

[Mike Leonard]

Tell them Killroy was here! Oh but then he departed. LOL! Yes you may well have missed out but then again who knows.

Berton Oney and Leroy Penny the two biggest names in the English btreed. I had a tom of them dogs and Clell Lee had a lot of them to. Vanzant's sam probably threw the best of the bunch but nearly every one I saw was medium nosed, but some made great bear dogs if you could ge them to pull their head out of their you know what. Looked good but pretty slow starting on big game.

Listen many of the old time dog guys would fondle a Full Cry and sau man that looks like old Pilot or such and end up with some pups cuz hounds are hounds and then after a bit they found out they were not old Pilot they just bore a resemblance to him.


Obe Cory said one time that within the UKC english breed you will find the least consistancy of any of the so called coon hound breeds. After these many years I have to agree. Lighten up with more walker darken em down with more bluetick but then again a stew is still a stew. But if you are hungry enough it will taste pretty darn good.

[poser]

[quote="Anybody know a registered strain of any color that will consistantly produce this kind of hound?[/quote]


Tim, I think you will have a harder time finding the hunters to hunt the pups to turn them into these type of dogs....

I'm as guilty as the next man or woman trying to find that once in a lifetime hound. I can't and won't put the time into making a great hound that is required.....too many family obligations for me.

The key ingredient and probably "JUST" as important as the breeding is living the lifestyle to make a pup into that hound we are all looking for. Sure there are those dogs that we can get our hands on that excell with what we do with them. But think what they could have been in the right hands.

I'm not saying there isn't anyone on these sites that doesn't hunt or can't make a dog. Im just saying that 97% percent of us are living the dream and the other 3% are actually doing it. We have our sights set on what is unrealistic for the time that we can commit to it. I'm not tryin to rain on anyones parade, just sayin be happy for what you have and enjoy it when you can do it. I guess hi standards are better then low ones....best of luck.

take care, jason

[liontracker]

Yeh Jason, that is probably it right there...in the hands of someone who is living the lifestyle. I've only heard of 2 or 3 of those guys that have ever tried a Cameron and only one has tried more than a couple. If it aint broke, don't fix it, right?

[festus]

Jason, I sure do agree with your statement's. That is about as true a statement as I have heard for a long time.

Regan, The best full blooded Nance dog I have seen as far as winding a track is the Topper again dog. I seen him wind a lion track from across a canyon one time, had I not been there to witness it I would never have believed it.
The best Nance blooded lion hound I have ever been around was my uncle's old Joker dog. He was out of a son of Nances Little Topper, and a Wiley Carroll female that Milt Holt had.

I am not much of a bear hunter so I can't help you on rigging bear. However, one of the best bear dogs I was ever around was Val Robbs old Gunner dog. He was a redtick ( old Junior ) and Walker ( House ) blooded dog.

[sourdough]

I have to say that it has been awhile since I have been on this site and I am trying to catch up on all the latest happening on the BGH. I have to agree with Festus on Jason’s comment, one of the most thought out comments I have heard on this site in a very long time.

As far as the Camerons I have never hunted with one but, I have seen my share of cold nosed blue tick that were damn straight great bare grounders. The long lines of bare ground lion hounds in the south west may not have that UKC pedigree that is prized by so many but, for those folks that have been breeding for generation and culling hard as to insure they could get the job done when they were called upon probably have as good or better blood lines as anything out there and the chances of just anyone getting their hands on one will most likely never happen.

Now the question of are there any papered hounds that are getting the job done as bare ground lion hounds? And the answer is most certainly yes. I myself hunt Nance blood in the pure form and on some out crosses on a strain of old lion bred hounds I have and am quite happy. Would I say that the Nance bred walkers are for everyone? No, but they do work for me and fit my handling and hunting style very well. With all breeds of hound they must be bred for the animal they are intended to be hunted on and the traits selected out that make them stand out in the arena they are in. A great lion hound wouldn’t be a speck on a great bear dog’s ass and vice versa.

Though I don’t know of any Camerons that are chafing their muzzles on some old dirt track in some God forsaken land doesn’t mean there are none. A breeder could put one of those Cameron’s in the “right” hands if they were free but, no one that is hunting a pack of hounds that is living the dream is going to pay a high price to change things up when they can have what they want in 63 days for free. I know there is a lot of sweat and tears that went into the Camerons and hope that the breeders of them are carrying the blood lines on for the right reason. Just a little Co2 on my part.

sourdough

[Benny G]

Dennis,
If you turned down a pup out of that first cross that Hal made, you probably made a mistake. Larry has a blue pup that is setting the world on fire out of the cross. Hal used one of Larry's males on one of his females. He went back to Larry's a second time to try again, and he wanted to try a different dog. Larry has a hi tan dog that another guy gave him from the second cross. The second cross dog isn't showing much potential.

[Clyde Lawson]

Dennis,
If you turned down a pup out of that first cross that Hal made, you probably made a mistake. Larry has a blue pup that is setting the world on fire out of the cross. Hal used one of Larry's males on one of his females. He went back to Larry's a second time to try again, and he wanted to try a different dog. Larry has a hi tan dog that another guy gave him from the second cross. The second cross dog isn't showing much potential.

Hey Benny, are you back from the Dark Cont. of the world?

Little "BGee" is growing and doing great! Made a nice looking pup and trees all the barn & feral cats around my place. Been taking him, but been pretty hot here in Okie country. Went out to SW OK last week after they had some rain. Treed cats on Weds. and Thurs, but then had 100+ days with wind for Fri., Sat, and Sun! We could start tracks in that sand, but hounds could not do anything with them? I'm anxious to get BGee big enough to see how he can handle this type of hunting.

Sure wish you were with us on two Bob's we treed! Both races, after we got them jumped, lasted over a hour, with it sounding like they were right on his tail. Weds. night race, Marion & I saw cat four times as we were standing in middle of the race!

They finally treed cat and Sue and Blueberry located and blew the top of the tree out! Another hunting Buddy said he could here them treed two mile away! When I got to tree, Bob was about 8 ft from their head and growling down at them!

Anyway---I never did get that breeding info from you, and I hope you didn't mail it and it got lost?

Looking forward to this Fall---Going to WY in Sept. for hunt, then maybe your way?

Keep in touch.

Clyd