Riggin Lion

[mark]

I dont recall anyone saying that riggn was the only way to hunt. Cobalt said it best,"riggn is another tool in the box to use." He also talked about " real cat strike dogs" there is a huge difference between a dog that will strike a fairly hot track and a dog that will let you know every time it gets the slightest wiff of cat scent. Like Al said the true rig dogs are born, they start when they are very young from inside the box usually. 4-6 months old. I believe that is where a lot of good rig dogs get ruined, most guys (especially the ones that dont rig hunt alot) get tired of hearing them bark in the box every time they smell game,good and bad. They hollar at em switch em shock em whatever, pretty soon little puppy shuts up for good out of the box and probably on top too. Then there is the pup that wont shut up for any discipline short of death when it smells something it likes, these are the ones although aggravating that can go on and truly become great rig dogs in the right hands.
We all fight adverse conditions every year. Its how we handle them that makes us become more successful. I learned years ago that i wasn't very successful sittn at home waiting on ideal conditions. There has been some good info on here,keep an open mind and and try to glean some good from it and try new things.

Jared, i too respect your public 180 on rigging. I had a feeling all along that the wheels were turning in your head and that you would figure it out!

[cobalt]

For those who are questioning how to make rig dogs, I feel mark' s post is super important in understanding how good rig dogs are made. I always ask myself "what did I just teach my dog to do and not to do. You aren't usually going to turn a 2,3,4 yr. old dog who is not rigging, into a rig dog unless you get real lucky.

I totally understand that the weather and conditions dictate whether it is worth while rigging, and that the motivation to do so is scarce even if the ability is there (lack of confidence). We all want to catch as high a percentage of game as we think is possible with what we are dealt (time, dogs, $, etc.). I'm not into torturing dogs in frigid rigging conditions. I would rather hang my head out and look for tracks in good snow at 20mph than rig at 5 or 10 in the same conditions. On a nice calm, 20 degree day with crusted snow might be good time to put the dogs up with a nice fleece coat on or let them rig out of a box stuffed with straw. Maybe there's a few spots where cats frequent and even though the percentages of catching a cat are lower, a least you're hunting.

I feel rigging is a unique trait. It is not striking (off the ground), it is not cold trailing, it is not lose pick-up, it is not tree. Maybe it is more closely related to locating, yet different because it has to do with a track and not an animal.
I feel the main issue in training a rig dog is to get the dog looking (by smell) for the target scent and that that scent is not exactly what a dog trailing smells. If you have any experience with rigging, you'll notice that a dog can rig a track (bark) and then jump off the truck, run a hundred yards not opening and find the track and then open when they get to the track. Excluding some dogs, the voice a dog gives when rigging is different from the trailing voice. The uniqueness of this trait is that some dogs are way more adept at it than others. I've seen many situations with rigging where a dog rigs good game, but can't start the track, yet another dog in the box, once he's on the ground can smell it and trail out. Both were trained the same, yet one is a better rig dog and the other is colder.
I am a mere student of the rig dog thing. Frustration is a common feeling for me when it comes to discerning what the hell those dogs are saying. The RECOGNITION thing discussed earlier by slowandeasy can be very difficult to master. One bark for this dog means a cat piss post, three barks for a 6hr old lion. Can't hear myself think on a hot bear. Every dog is unique in how they communicate off the rig as well as on the ground. A lot of times it is a chess game of "what's my next best move" to progress the dogs in a positive direction towards a trustful rig dog (lol). One must do a lot of guessing to figure out the best strategy and failure is the best learning tool.
Anyway, bla, bla bla, yada, yada, yada. Fun topic.

[jcathunter]

Funny to see this pop up again. Must have been over ten years ago I asked about hunting in Nv and mentioned that I wasn't too worried about snow because I had a good rig dog. That was when I was informed that rigging cats didn't work. Good to see that the debate is still out there.

[mike martell]

Jason

I don't remember who mentioned it, but they said you had Niki and that Bucco dog. Did you end up with those two? Niki was as good of a rig dog on lions as any dog around and Bucco was smooth sailin on them bobcats, both great rig style hounds.....Just got my curiosity up on the time frame.....You mentioned lion hunting down in Nevada ten years ago in your post, those the dogs you hunted in Nevada?

Mike

[jcathunter]

Yep, I ended up with Niki and Bucko. I can't remember if they went to Nv with me or not as I only went one time and didn't have any luck. We even had snow. I think Niki was a better balanced dog but both of them got old and senile and started to pull up treed as soon as they got down after striking. hahahha I tell you what, I'd love to have some of that tree power right about now.

[mike martell]

Jason.
I Thought so. Niki was lion simple, rig to tree and could she pound out a tough lion track. Bucko was the better bobcat dog of the two. Bucko could handle those gravel road running bobcats and they did tree well.....I remember those two as pups a little over a year old treed well over two hundred coon, rig to tree the first winter they were hunted and went like ducks to water on cats....No wonder, the sire was a direct son of Woods Creek Loose Bruce by the name of Amos and old Kate .....Them dogs treed a pile of game....I would like to have them today! That line made me quit them plott dogs and rethink how you catch game.

Hope you are catching some cats down on the coast....I'm envious of your new found life style....I bear hunted that country a great deal when I was a whole lot younger back in the late 70's,Always stayed at Wells creek, only way I can remember is because in 1980 I bought a brand new Chevy luv truck and it was a cadillac for hound hunting back in the day....Game central but damn that brush!

Take Care, Mike

[fallriverwalker1]

is this a test/ serously why cant you rig a lion , they leave a sent ; one year i caught more lions than bears all off the truck , back then we could run lions just couldn't kill them . some times i wonder about theser dog's you have jim , mike i take it youir comment was sarcastic

[mike martell]

Jim,

I was being sarcastic. I know you rig your game in your dry arid California country and do it on a regular basis. The two hounds Jcathunter owned were decendants of your line and Bill A. that trace back to Barricks Alex, Feather River Babe and dogs you are very familiar with on the side of the dam and did they not only rig but they caught game!

I know that since I raised and trained them as pups.This is a very productive thread for hound hunters if they want to learn something about rig dogs.

You Montana guys are missing a good bet on your cats by waiting for snow and by not rigging your bobcat and lions......This could be avery effective tool when your snows hit late like we have experienced in many regions here in Oregon. My family is all from Culbertson in N. Eastern Montana and I do hunt and rig Montana....

Mike

[Nolte]

This my take from the midwest. Rigging is the most overated "tool" in the box. It works and I do it but its more of a fallback than a goto method. I just prefer working on a track than driving to find one the dogs can strike. Many times you also can't determine if the track is one you want to go after or try to avoid. You can burn up a full day going after a critter you aren't targeting. It is also tough to determine direction of travel. These are just my thoughts from here.

I know guys in other areas rig and stack game. It's the best (or only) method they've got to get stuff going. So they concentrate and refine it to it's fullest capabilities.

One thing you have to have to "teach" a dog to rig is strikeable tracks. I could probably travel somewhere else and strike for a month to get the same amount of potential cat strikes here. Just the way it is. And "teach" is sort of misleading because all you are really doing is ecouraging or discouraging them to bark, you just have to know what they're barking at.

I find it funny how guys who primarily rig look down at guys who either don't/cant. Then guys who don't rig think it's dumb to drive around all day looking for a track. Everybody could probably meet halfway on it but then what fun would that be. If there is one thing I have learned is that it is another "tool" to have, sometimes it's the best tool and other times it's a poor one. Just depends on the situation. But the biggest thing is to never have just one "tool" unless it works the best all the time.

[mike martell]

Nolte.

We can rig a dog here in Oregon for one hundred miles and not hit a cat on some days or nights and roading I can cover about 20 miles.....Just makes better sense to rig here, five times the coverage will increase the odds and this justifies my reason to rig all tracks. Don't think we have cats behind every bush.....I run everything I can since I struggle to find a cat every trip out, coon,Gray fox, bear, lions, lynx and bobcats all with the same mutts...I hunt other species no longer legal in other states or beyond.
You would be foolish to not have all the latest lures or baits in the tackle box with gas being like it is....

cat season is here and dogs need hunted!

Good luck!

[papa]

It does happen. Good friend of mine recently had his dogs rig what he thought was a bear, turned out and had alion treed in less than hour. Like some have said, it may not happen often, but it does happen.

[pawsnpads]

It's more possible than you think!

[pawsnpads]

It's more possible than you think!

[dhostetler]

Mike I do most of my hunting in NW MT the problem with rigging here is the temperature hardly gets above 40 degrees in Dec & Jan. you will freeze your dogs to death by putting them on top of your box and driving around in sub freezing temperatures. I have struck and caught lions by striking out of the box but have had better luck at roading in no snow conditions.

[imchestnut]

dhostetler,

If you read the entire thread, we already covered this. Your conditions in Montana are, "pretty much the same," as Oregon and other places and the cold and conditions is just an excuse for not rigging 100 cats a year...if it was really that effective, I wonder why I have NEVER seen a single person here have dogs on top of the box? Aren't bobcats selling for like $700 bucks the last two years?

I'm with you though, I will driving around with my side flaps on my box open, thats how I know we rig a few cats a year but not very many in sub 20 degree temperatures and most of them are cats crossing through a canyon in the morning to move back to bedding areas. I would love to see people drive around with dogs on top of the box. I ran a track in less than a half an inch of snow yesterday morning, the temperature at daylight was 5 degrees. If where you live is anywhere like here, its a windy SOB alot of the time in addition to the cold. A guy could legitimetly get arrested for sticking dogs up on the box for 100 miles in those temperatures.