Is this the answer to our prayers?

[moose]

i hunt in idaho. i have drawn the out of state hound perment 10 years in a row.

hot nosed sight dogs would not stand a chance on bobcat pure fact unless you have cats in the flat stubble fields.

so you are saying you know that 100%.

[twist]

You know of any that can get it done (consisantly) please share your info with us. Andy

[moose]

just because you guys dont think it will work, doesnt mean he shoundnt try it. like i said before go for it and good luck.

[Dan McDonough]

I agree that hounds are the best answer for running cold tracks. When your playing the bobcats game you will have better success going after a better statistical probability. No one can argue against that. There are dogs outside of the hounds that can and will run cold tracks and do a surprisingly good job of it.

I don't have an answer for anyone about the ability of these pups to do it. I don't know of one other person that has ever hunted first cross boarder collie based lurchers on bobcats.

One thing that has given me hope that it is possible is a set of videos from a guy named Andrew Edwards here is what's on U-Tube:

http://youtu.be/Mqd56D2-33c

You can't watch all of what's available until you go to his site and buy the full length videos but the dogs cold trail the fox, jump them and catch and kill them. It doesn't account for the need for treeing sometimes but it does prove that first cross collie lurchers can get the rest of the race done. There are 3 or 4 DVD's.

Here are the links to get the videos:

http://www.foxhuntingwithlurchers.co.uk/

http://workinglurcher.blogspot.co.uk/

[Dan McDonough]

I watched the first video when it was on u-tube. It was later pulled off of the site by the user so I'm sure it was because it was because they wanted to sell it. It's awesome and I just now ordered the full video for myself to have and show here at the house. Andrew Edwards has sure got the nack and the fox population for some great footage.

I know it's fox but considering nearly all running dogs have been bred for so long to NOT catch fox, it seemed like a logical conclusion to give dogs that are breed TO catch fox a try. Most folks don't think of the lurcher as a dog that can coldtrail a fox up and get it jumped. I think most folks understand that they are good after the jump. Andrew Edwards proves that coldtrialing is in the bag of tools of the right crosses.

There are MANY crosses that can produce lurchers. As many as all of the other dogs we hunt combined. The sighthounds used are typically greyhounds, deerhounds, salukis, and whippets but all of the other more rare sighthounds can be used. The other side typically are the pastoral breeds like boarder collies, Australian shepards, heelers, etc., along with the terrier breeds (I would really like to incorporate a specific line of jagdterriers which are open on track and tree), but may include the bird dogs and any of the hunting curs.

The possibilities are endless but like the tendency in the US to lean towards the hound crosses that work the most often for cats, I have focused my project on the lurcher crosses that work the best for the most people. My experience with boarder collies and their crosses here in the past kept me looking along those lines. I veered from the greyhound and went with the American staghound because I think the stag has more to offer than a greyhound and the overall speed is so much overkill that it would be a good idea to pick up some other beneficial traits and give up a touch of the top end speed.

[Dan McDonough]

Thanks Moose.

Most people think it's interesting. A lot think it won't work. I'd like to remind the last group that there are 13 years of study, thousands of articles, books, videos and other evidence that say it is possible. I've talked with many people here in the US and also in the UK that say it is very possible if you've picked the right dogs. There is a lot more going on and that has already gone on that I don't write about. There are a pile of people out there that go into an idea that don't do their homework before hand. I'm not one of those people.

Will it work? It might not. I may have to try several crosses. I may hit it on the first try. All I know is that this is not a stab in the dark. Whatever happens, I'm having a very good time in the process. The only reason I put all of this on here is that it might be of some fun for others to read. I'm doing the project reguardless. Even if it fails, I'll bet I learn things that nearly no one else knows and will be that much better off in my next project. That's a big part of the fun of this sport for most folks. I think we can all agree on that.

[merlo_105]

Your going at it the right way and most likely will have some success. But just cause these guys are using these lurchers to cold trail a fox sure the hec dont mean its gonna be able to trail a semi cold Bobcat track. Fox puts off alot of smell I have seen labs cold trail Fox. And this speed your gonna be getting out of these dogs where are you gonna be able to use it? The desert yes, clean non brushy Pine Forest yes. Any thing thick is gonna slow the dogs up and put them right back at the speed of anything else. I dont believe a hound or a cur is the only way you can catch cat. But I do know you cant run what they cant smell. Trying to build a better dog only leave's one to assume that your Leopards arent getting the job done... I would be crossing them things up. Keep us posted I do like reading about these dogs. Just tuff to understand having a outside look and feel. Good luck

[Dan McDonough]

The Leopards are doing really well. If it ain't broke don't fix it...

You can guess all you want about how they will turn out but the one thing I can guarantee is that we'll all be surprised at some point, in some way.

About trailing fox...what if they said that about the trigs or running walkers? We'd all be trying to catch cats with blueticks and black and tans, boy would that suck!

The speed you are thinking of in the lurchers translates to the woods also. I wouldn't want to run a longdog in the woods or even a 3/4 g.h. x 1/4 b.c., that's to much power and speed for the woods. The first cross collie lurchers are tough enough to handle the knocks in the woods. This just reminded me of something I saw. The grandmother to these pups was out working the cows when I pulled up to the place where I found a boarder collie stud. When drove in and met with the owner of the place, he called that female out of the field and she came running at top speed and squirted through a five bar gate without slowing down even a little. I though she might go over and I didn't know what to think when I didn't see her pull back in speed as she neared the gate. When she shot through it, I was very impressed. It's that kind of agility that puts the fur on the wall faster. I wish I had a video of that to show you all.

It's like this only at a dead run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VMn6GAUsUM

[stevemac]

I run lurcher type dogs on red fox every weekend in the winter. I have also owned foxhounds that could trail a fox anywhere. my lurches do not cold trail but once on a hot trail its good night fox they will trail until the fox breaks cover then run him down and finish the job. The foxhounds caught there share but the lurches leave them for dead when it comes to numbers on the wall. Both types of hunting has its enjoyment I love listening to hounds but lurches are a lot easier to live with.

[Dan McDonough]

Steve- I enjoyed your pictures on the fox hunting with terriers thread. You've been making this game work for a while now. Have you ever seen Andrew Edwards videos called Fox Hunting with Lurchers? I have a couple on the way and I saw a good bit when it was still on U-Tube. He's got some great footage.

[oneup]

Hounds should be judged on a whole, mouth,nose,speed,locating ability, and looks. In my opinion i have hunted with many cur hunters and a top dog to them was one that got lots of hides in the shed even if sacrificing all the main qualities most look for in a hound. Whats fun about a dog running through woods only taking red hot tracks surprising there quarry out of pure silence Im with the al guy (buy some snares) those type of dogs sound boring but probably bred to further a certain type of hunters ego on the amount of game they have in fur shed. And by the way these style of dogs are only gonna work on game that cant run (coon opossum squirrels) NOT BOBCATS unless there catching them by sight which in the western states is not gonna happen except fo occasional desert cat.

[Dan McDonough]

One up- I'm not trying to make more of the same.