Comparing hounds

[onalimb]

I bought G2 six dog system for a reason, and it wasn't to use it on them in the truck, or at the tree. I drag them back and get them calmed down, AND THEN, expect them to follow me back out. I don't even want a dog that can be called off a tree or bay. Some people do, whatever trips your trigger man. I think that's like dulling up a sharp knife. JMO

[bearhntwi]

Boy you guys have selective hearing, I said "leashed every second"! Nothin about pullin off trees. far as beating dogs, that shows your level off training ability Lots of hunters can catch game with dogs, but houndsmen take pride in their dogs over the amount of entries in a B&C record book, impressive point there

Here it comes now, BS, internet know it all, I must not know what I'm talking about to say such things. Whatever helps you make excuses I guess. i can promise you that my dogs wait to come out of the box til they hear their name in any order, the only time I touched a leash this year was when there were strange dogs hunting with mine or alot of other dogs, thats starting a track or leaving the tree. My dogs don't cower like they are beat, they just know the routine, cause I enjoy and spend lots of time making them a pleasure to hunt. They put up their fair share also. Lots of dogs will catch game, but not lots of houndsmen make them a finished dog.

far as your local legend blackpaws, I'm sure he can catch game, lots of people can. Every town has one.

I simply stated how I expect my dogs to handle, sorry if it bruised some ego's. Blackpaws, if you have to beat your dogs to keep em from running over you when you open up the box, maybe you should take up golf. you bet your ass i would be embarrassed to show up with a bunch of poor handling dogs and hunt with someone who's dogs did. I 'm pretty sure I know at least one guy that would chew your ass and send you packin for it.

I see yer point,if you have to always have a dog leashed unless he's runnin a track that would be a big pain in the ass.I can freecast my dogs and drive behind em and have em strike that way,I'm just sayin i've never seen a guy call 9 hounds off a bear tree and just walk a way.

[blackpaws]

I had a guy with me last summer who video taped me calling my hounds off the tree, but the brush was heavy and it isn't very impressive. Shawn Labrum who owns and runs a guide service and ran hounds for over twenty-five years went to the tree with me half a dozen times on bears last spring, and he watched me call those hounds off each and every tree without a leash.

i am not disputing the fact that you can call them off anytime under any circumstance but how did you get them to do that when they are so intense on treeing or baying a bear? i find it hard to believe that you didn't have to use a shock collar or give them a thump every now and then. with that being said, why would want to even think about shocking a dog when it is doing what it is suppose to be doing like treeing or baying. maybe it didn't affect your dogs but isn't that how you trashbreak a dog by puting a shock collar on them and shock them when they run the wrong animal.

i can see all this handling stuff around the yard like loading and saying kennel and the dog runs to the kennel but calling your dog off the game it is suppose to be running, treeing or baying seems odd and i don't see how it was possible without the aid of the shock collar. BUT if that is how you like to hunt then it's the way it's going to be.

The way dogs handle is one way to determine how much time someone spends with their dogs and if they are a houndsman or hunter.

this is the statement i have a problem with. just because i put a leash on my dog doesn't mean i don't spend time with them or i am not a good hunter. i don't spend much time on the handling because i spend my time on the cold trailing and ATTEMPTING to catch the animal. i don't catch all of them but i try.

[Hounder-]

anyone else notice how the original poll question has NOTHING to do with the discussion now(seems like someone just wanted to share some stories and the poll was an excuse).....its an interesting discussion nonetheless just kinda funny

I am impressed with your stories Ike, there is no chance I could call my dogs off a tree. I am curious what kind of training you did to make 'em do that, not that I want that extreme of control but maybe I can get some general training ideas? PM me if you no longer want in on this post.

On the same note though I agree with the leashing sentiment, I don't see the big deal in having to leash a dog. I actually work my dogs on a leash, I get them to heal and not yank on the leash and thats what I want. With my luck we will cut a fresh bear track on the way out at dark and I don't need that aggravation. If the dog heals on the leash it is just as good as no leash just have the security aspect;). I do voice command them in the yard and they listen to me when we are working a track together (I find the track and call them over) but once they have that right scent they are dead to the world and I don't see that as a bad thing, I like that 100% focus on the track.

I do agree the more manners a dog has the more a man has spent with it. When a hound is barking in the box, yanking on the leash, and won't load there needs to be a little more training involved. But I just don't feel like the extreme levels of voice commands are as necessary as they have been made out to be here, just seems like overkill. But if you got the time and the want to do it, got for it, more than one way to skin a cat!


No harm meant by the post, just my thoughts......
-Hounder

[reed]

I'm with Preston on this one. I will lead them away from the tree and then they better listen and come with me. But I sure aint going to get mad at them for wanting to go back. I will lead them long enough for them to refocus on me, when they calm down they get let off the leash. But I don't calm them down I want them fired up at the game.

On that note I also agree with blackpaws I sure aint going to shock them off a tree to get them to listen. That sounds counter productive to me.

But from my observation I think that this topic, what it is now, is a regional thing. The guys out west are for it and the the guys back east don't mind leashing up. Part of this I would believe has to do with the terain and road system. Back east there is a pretty good raod system and usually the walk is not to far. Not a nice walk as Nolte pointed out but it isn't usually to far. Out west the road system stinks most often. So the less you have to carry to a tree and then pack out the better. Most leashes are chain and get kinda heavy on a hour walk into a tree and then back out. Neither one is bad just different strokes for different folks.

[arizonabeagle]

i look at it this way
theres dogs that need leashin at times and others that dont
i know neither of mine do and i've seen a dog hunted with one hunter that was led damn near the whole hunt, and i was the guy leadin him! shitty luck i tell you what
but then i've seen that same dog handled by someone else and there was never a leash near that dog
one of you hound huntin know it alls explain that to me please!?

if you ask me it dont matter if a dog needs leashin or dont,s ometimes its just so youknow what the bastards are
as far as runnin you over out of the box or flat out just not listening to you is another thing...

[Hounder-]

But from my observation I think that this topic, what it is now, is a regional thing. The guys out west are for it and the the guys back east don't mind leashing up. Part of this I would believe has to do with the terain and road system. Back east there is a pretty good raod system and usually the walk is not to far. Not a nice walk as Nolte pointed out but it isn't usually to far. Out west the road system stinks most often. So the less you have to carry to a tree and then pack out the better. Most leashes are chain and get kinda heavy on a hour walk into a tree and then back out. Neither one is bad just different strokes for different folks.

Good points, I agree.....

[reed]

Arizonabeagle I once read a signiture that stated: "If you think you are someone of importance try telling someone elses dog what to do."

[Mike Leonard]

Dennis,

I am not a guy that knows much about rig dogs but I have a world of respect for them but I want to tell you you got some energy going with this one. Good job!

Lively debate is healthy and it always draws insight.

[Ike]

You said a mouthful there Mike! Anytime a guy starts talking about comparing hounds people seem to get on the fight.......

So you been hunting any? I came down through your country a couple weekends back headed to Oklahoma to see family. Usually I go through Denver but the snow storm prediction scared me down through Albuquerque New Mexico, but it snowed like hell on us Friday evening down between Farmington on. I mean it snowed so damn hard I couldn't see the road at twenty miles per hour.........I hope some of you guys got a lion run out of that storm cause it didn't do much for me.

ike

[Ike]

http://www.ingramwildlife.com/callinghounds.wmv

I ran a low quality clip that Labrum shot last spring off last night and put it up on the web of my hounds treeing on a bear and me calling them off. It isn't a great deal because of the brush but anybody can see those hounds come on the run when the old man sings.........

ike

[Mike Leonard]

Yes we had a little snow storm that came thru but lion season is closed now till Oct. 1 st.

I am still hunting some but only on private ranches. We have had some calf kills but every one I have checked has been the work of feral dogs. Coyotes have been seen eating on them but the proximety of these ranches to the indian reservation is very close and the rez. is crawling with wild dogs, and they are super bad on baby calves and sheep.

If anybody wants to know how close their old pet dog is to his wild ancestors just observe some that have been feral for a few generations. Man on man they can live on anything, are much smarter and warier than a coyote once they have been shot at and missed a few times, and quick evolution seems to happen among them. this may be becasue only the strong, fast, quick and smart survive to breed but it is amazing to watch them team up and run a jack rabbit down in no time. They can also be very dangerous if you happen on a pack of them so it is best to go armed.It is also very difficult to break hounds from running wild dogs, becasue they have a scent that just drives hounds wild. Back when I was bear hunting hard years ago I kept between 20-30 dogs and i would run my packs 10-15 miles a night with the truck to keep them hard and in shape. A number of times they would cross the track of a feral dog, and away the flew roaring like they were on the heels of a big old stinky bear. They generally caught the dogs and stretched them before I could get to them, but it was amazing to see how hard they would run a wild cousin.

[Lonewolf]

Ike, The poll should be about does a person dogs handles or not. I think it's up to each hunter to decide which way they enjoy to hunt. The person who keeps his dogs handling good will have more time to hunt and catch game. Over the years I learned if they handle good you spend less gas money trying to find the dogs.

[Nolte]

Over the years I learned if they handle good you spend less gas money trying to find the dogs.

How much does that compare to the savings in gas of putting down on the first track vs driving until a guy gets a rig? Sorry, had to stir the pot.

[Ike]

I'm still waiting for you to come out nolte and ride along with Mecham, Labrum and I and help us show those dumb red dogs of mine all the tracks they missed........