Pure Camerons as Dryground Lion Hounds?

[JTG]

My Cameron hounds have no trouble with Dry ground. I was invited to go with some friends to South Texas to hunt a Lion that hung around deer feeders to snack on Trophy Bucks. I had a pair of full brothers from Del about a year old. I took one.
My friends had some dry ground hounds and I will leave off where they came from. We got their around 3:00 and it was hot. We tied the dogs to the side of the stock trailor waterd the hounds and sadled up. Around dark on a dry creek bed my young Cameron hound started making snaping noises with his nose in the dry dirt. He ran about 100 yards and open up, Loud, crying and at a full run with two other hounds behind him.
It was thick and rough country and at night and I was getting cut up bad by the brush.
My friends where long gone.
They treed him in a small tree about 3" round and 12 feet tall. My cameron hound was using his front two paws clinging and climbing the tree. The Lion jumped ran about 100 yards and all three bayed him on the ground. The lion saw me and treed about 25 yards. I snaped the dogs and left the Lion in the tree and spent the next day with twizers pulling thorns off of me, the horse and dog.

[Mike Leonard]

JTG,

That's a good story and good job! However that is not indicitive to true dry ground hunting that was a hot lion. I have hunted deep south Texas, and been scratched up a plenty! LOL!

[JTG]

Mike, He may have been hot and most likely was but the young cameron hound lead the way from start to finish. He open at dark thats around 8:00 here in Texas five hours after cut them loose in 90 plus degree weather. When I left the tree it was three in the morning.
Leading not riding the horse all of us had enough. All I am saying is there's some Cameron Hounds that will get the Job done regardless of where including dry ground.

[hunt14]

JTG congrats on the nice hound. Yes you are right there are a few Cameron dogs that can do it. The key words here are " a few". No different than any other registered breed with very very few exceptions. When it comes down to percentages my friend with all due respect the percentage of Cameron's making just good dry ground dogs is very small.

A few months ago I had the opportunity to pick up a papered pup heavy in the Finley River blood. I knew he probably wouldnt be the exception or any different to other papered dogs that I have ran but the breeder continued to tell me that these pups could do it all from dry ground to snow from bobbers to bear to lion and coon and thats just the way these dogs are. I didnt discredit his hounds one bit but I expressed to him my concern and experience I have had with other papered dogs with the exception of a few and this guy got really upset with me. He told me I was narrow minded and that if I was that narrow minded he didnt want me even have one of his pups. He said I was no different than another Utah hound man from the four corners area that turned back a pup to him because he said he wasnt making the grade and that pup ended up being his best bear dog and that he had treed mountain lion with him also in the northern states. I asked three different times for references on who is hunting his pups on bare ground mountain lion and never got one and I apologized for anything I said that offended him and reassured him that I wasnt speaking on behalf of his hounds because I hadnt tried them but that I hadnt had the best luck with the papered dogs on bare ground lions that I had owned in the past. By this time Im wondering who Im dealing with here and wanted nothing to do with these dogs no matter their ability. The reason I even said anything about that is because many times it seems we want to try something new or discover something that hasnt been discovered in a strain of dogs or revive an old strain. I agree this can be done but this takes many many years and some hard hunters. I personally cant feel comfortable buying any registered dogs with the exception of a few guys like Jeff Allen, Warner Glenn, Mike, Pacojack, festus, or guys of the like because they hunt similar conditions and I know my chances are greatly increased of that dog turning out to hunt how I want it to.

[JTG]

Hunt 14 alot of what you said I agree with. There are alot of people out there with some really good hounds that have not been heard of in all breeds and mixed breeds.
I hunt with some of them, Ranchers who use them daily. One guy who has been breeding hounds for three generations in his family.
He keeps whole litters, culls all but the best, never sells, and has some really good hounds. Still only a FEW are what he considers a hound that earns his living.
Its very hard for most to do that so they roll the dice and hope for the best.
All that being said good hounds of any type can not be massed produce like a factory so when you get one from a "good" breeder that does not turn out well thats part of it regardless of who they came from.
When you get a good one enjoy.
Mike and anyone else what I say is just my option and I consider us on same team.

[cobalt]

JTG- Good job for sticking your neck out there. Those boys down there have a real ax to grind with the Cameron dog. The right ones(and there are quite a few) will catch game where ever you put them. They have desire to catch game and are a durable hound. I know several that are down in that country doing fine. I would venture to say that Bundrick's Buckaroo is head and shoulders above his competition because he's wiped the floor with them, head to head, and he's in Kanab. Is that an acceptable area of the SW for you Mr. Leonard? Oh, by the way, Mr. Leonard, I think you might have stepped in your own poop. A couple months ago, Jeff Allen got a dog out of my kennel. Dirty, cold-nosed little bastard. Cash on the barrel, baby.

[Mike Leonard]

Cobalt I have no axe to grind with Cameron dogs I was simply stating facts as I see it. Everybody has opinions.

Kanab acceptable? Acceptable for what? Dang nice place ,beautiful country if you are a bare ground hunter you can find some good bare ground to run there at some times of the year if you are a snow hunter you can find a ton of snow there at other times of the year. It's a lot like other areas in the same zone across the mountain west it can we hard as heck at times and down right easy at other times. Don't tell me about Jeff Allen because he and I have been very close personal friends for many many years. And if I want to know about the dogs I will call him.I will also check and see if Buckaroo is wiping the floor up on all of Jeff's dogs. I will let him know you that was your report.

[cobalt]

Bla, bla ,bla. You sure like trying to put words in my mouth. I got nothing against Jeff Allen and didn't tell you anything about him . At least he hunts. Make sure in the report you tell him to take care of my dog. I was countering your comments that you "couldn't resist" passing to me earlier in the thread. I would like to hear peoples thoughts on dogs they know that are alive and well TODAY that work dry ground. Instead, all I see is rationale against these dogs from you because you've seen every dog and been everywhere. When you degrade others dogs and I don't care if you did your college thesis on those dogs, at some point someones gonna say FU, you're wrong. We know you've been close personal friends with Jeff Allen, you've beat it in to our heads over time about "the old Kanaber". It's too bad I could care less what you or he thinks.

[bluewalkerlionhound]

home of the true southwest hound but up North. copywrite#6478875344578

edited 4 u az. just get so tired of the same ol crap and smartass undertones



not that it matters but jim doesnt have joey and dirty is half bluedog/allen. potatoe,patotoe

[arizonabeagle]

cant just have a civilized conversation these days can we?
all you utah boys always gotta start knowin everything as soon as a fella offers his opinion LOL
after all this thread is based off opinion and what different people have seen and the conclusions they draw from their experiences..but god dang as soon as someone dont agree with another mans opinion of things they get all sorts of butt hurt and blow up!
seems like lots of you fellas didnt get attitude adjustments from your momma when ya needed em!

[high desert hounds]

To all those concerned these are Jeffs exact words. Jeff said the blue dog he got from jim cost 250 dollars and that is exactly what the dog is worth. as far as the buck dog goes he is an exceptional dog for being sebastian bred and only part cameron. It's funny that jim got rid of his cameron dogs and started going with the allen dogs.Jim says the Joey and Dirty dogs are the direction he is headed.
Tell the gentleman that gave jim the puppy that jeff would like a call. Jeff could care less what anybody else is hunting and would appreciate not being slung through these threads. All are welcome to call jeff and visit with him personaly about the dogs. 435- 689-1660

[cobalt]

Tell him I'll give him the "$250" back plus dog food and return the dog(and the papers). If you say he was put down, then we'll all know there's a lie. You have no idea what you're talking about. You think I don't know Buck's blood? He's out of my bitch! and you're wrong about the blood! Jim is going to all Jeff Allen dogs? That is Jim's business, not mine, but you're wrong in everything you've said and I bet you're wrong about that, too.
AAAAAAAAAnd, you guys are the ones who bring Jeff Allen's name into it, not I. I'm sure Jeff loves his name thrown around the internet. It sells dogs and he doesn't have to pay for it.

[JTG]

The owner of the Ranch an x fighter pilot around 70 a tall saltly guy had a couple of young cowboys working for him. At one time he had a lot of cattle but scaled way back so he had a few cows on a big ranch so these two guys where real good.
I thought I lost these two guys around midnight but apparently he had them trained to come to a cow horn. I kept hearing two long blast and one short blast from a cow horn.
I was thinking they where calling their dogs and did not think much of it.
He left the light on above the barn so I could find my way back it was four or five in the morning and I did not want to wake them up so I layed down on my tool box in the back of my truck.
About six in the morning one of those cowboys woke me up and told me to come to the ranch house and they had a big breakfast on the table.
As soon I sat down the owner said did you hear us calling you with the cow horn. I told him I heard the horn. I reach down with my fork and just as I was about take a bite he said next time you hear the horn come back. "Yes Sir" I was about to take a bite and he asked about the Lion. I told him that I treed him. He asked why didnt you shoot him?
I just shruged my shoulders and for the next 10 minutes everytime I tried to take a bite of food he was on me about how much that Lion was costing him.
Me and the two cowboys just sat there not saying a word. Finally I said does this mean next time you have a problem Lion you want call me? Hell no I didnt say that.

[Ike]

I'm sure Jeff loves his name thrown around the internet. It sells dogs and he doesn't have to pay for it.

Now that was funny. I'll bet Hal Mecham has sold alot of dogs this spring (all he could turn loose) because ol' Ike was throwing his name around on the NET..............maybe we should start charging these old timers to mention their names on the NET since they benefit so much from it......I'll bet Leonard does.

the ikester!

[Mike Leonard]

Dennis that might be a good idea! LOL! But I never make much off anything it seems.

May be true for some of the old timers but this old timer ( and sure not as old as Hal) LOL! seldom sells dogs anymore. I have helped to advertize and sell some dogs of friends but the last dog I sold to the public was Hagar the Horrible several years ago to Shorty. I don't even raise my own pups anymore I let others who still enjoy that do it and I buy them from them or some times they give me a pup for a stud fee.

Back 15 years ago or more I sold a lot of dogs. Pups , started and some experienced dogs. It was a real hassle back then with shipping air flights and all that stuff but now days it is just unreal and I don't want to mess with it. So the last young dogs I sold has been probably 5 years ago or close to that and they mostly went to Mexico to ranchers, and they handled their own shipping. Oh I did sell the Lilly female to Liontracker but that was as a part of his breeding project and don't have a thing for sale now and probably won't for the forseable future. Just sort of working the ones I have some getting a little older and some of the younger ones working into a different positions. Of the 9 grown hounds I own right now only one is a female and only two of the males are not fixed. I also have several young pups coming to me out of older strain stock pretty soon and that's it.



I was having breakfast with a bear hunting buddy of mine the other day. He use to always keep upwards of 20 dogs but he said he was down to about a dozen and said he didn't care if he got down to 7 or 8. Like he said sometimes less is more.


I know I could get by with a lot less dogs than I have right now and probably would do fine with 4 or so but then with my luck like has been in the past five years, boom you get a bad lion or two and some bad ledges and bluffs and you wake up just about out of dogs.