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I went to the wolf meeting last night. As many people that hate wolves, I would have thought more people would have showed up. I think there was about 80 people there, put I understand people get fusterated over the process, it just takes time. I think the local F&G are on the right track, put it still does not go far enough. Anything beyond what they are proposing will have to take legeslative action. One step at a time. Hopefully before everything crashes. I had a young lady sit next to me. I found out she was from northern Cal. I thought this is not good. Part way through the meeting I found out she was here studing the wolves for college, she was a senior. Know I really thought I would be in trouble with her when I voiced my dislike for the wolves. Boy was I surprized. This young lady from Cal. actually enjoy's hunting. After one of the F&G guys introduced us and told her what I did for a living we had quite the chat. I asked her about the bill that Cal. is trying to pass, she said she was watching it and does not think it will go all the way . Hopefully she is right. she hopes it will not pass either. Frankly I was impressed. She has only been here a week and will be leaving end of aug. to finish school. She will be heading up to my neck of the woods soon with her mentor. I asked her if they needed somebody to show them around, the F&G thought it would be a great idea. I will let you know how it turns out if it happens.

I would like to respond to Tug's comments, in order. Untill wolves came along hunters and big cats were the only things that kept the cat pop. in check. Did not need to spend a ton of money to figure that one out. You also have to realize there is always going to be more deer and elk hunters out there than cat hunters. I have no answer for why they are raising the quotas in region two. Now for the next response for your proposal and this is where a board comes in. What you are suggesting would take a lot of work. On a draw the out of state hunters are limited to 10 percent or less. Put to limit outfitters to percent of a quota would have to require legislation. We ran into this when we passed H.B. 142 limiting out of state houndsman and like I said before a couple of outfitters screwed that up, it was workin,. As for the older mule deer bucks go. Mt. up to this point has always been managed for hunter opportunity and not trophy hunting. I ask myself is it worth a life time to maybe draw a tag so I can maybe shoot a big trophy or be able to hunt every year and never shoot a huge trophy, put hope every year it will happen. It is a no brainer for me, I like to hunt. I do not watch the record books much so I asume you are right. I can only till you my expriences in region one. The houndsman around here are more interested in running there dogs than what it takes to find a big cat. It might take you all winter traveling 300 or 400 hundred miles a day to find one. Now about a board. Nobody said it it would be easy. Here is how I look at it. I do not want my future decided by somebody else and neither should any body else. If something is worth having it is worth fighting for. I do not have the enery that I once had. But cat hunting holds a special place in my heart. I am willing to help you get started , put once it is in place I will step aside and let you guys run it. If any body is interested I will start by telling who I am and how to get ahold of me.I have been an outfitter and guide for amost five decades. I started outfitting in the Yaak where I grow up when I was 16. At the age of 19 I started guiding and outfitting in the Bob Marshall Wilderness along with the yaak and Eureka permits. Which is where I have lived since 19. I also had an outfitting business in British Columbia for several years. I started selling some of my business about six years ago and just sold my last one in Eureka and the Yaak this year. My name is Steve Hawkins cell 406-270-5160 web, www. montana artist and author. com Tug, thanks for the post

Kinda off subject but in the last 2 months I have seen 3 different lions while out driving and bear hunting. I have never seen a lion population so out of control. I think this next years hunting season will help lower some lion numbers. Also if trapping is passed on wolves, this will be a big benefit for our overall ungulate populations. The lions I have seen are in the areas I lion hunt in the winter. I'm not saying lion populations are out of control everywhere in MT but they sure look that way where I am hunting.

Bigblues, I do not think you are off subject. I am the one that steered off course. It is hard for me to just set back if people think there is a problem. I think up to this point I have stayed sort of neutral on whether we have to many cats or not. I hunt in 100, 101 and 109 mostly. Like you I think the cat pop. at this moment is not hurting. I think we have way to many predators period. I think we are so far behind the eight ball it might be to late. I can tell you right now the moose is in big trouble. I have been lucky enough to take 2 to 4 moose hunters a year for the past 40 years, I know what I am talking about. The last 4 years I have seen very, very few moose calves. With my last moose hunter last year we saw 14 cows and not one single calf, thats not good. F&G claims we have over 1000 grizzly bears in the region. I have no idea how many black bears, put there's a lot. F&G claims we have 640 documented wolves put they now they have way more than that. All of these animals eat big game animals. The federal goverment has done a great job in protecting the predators in the state of Mt.. Now we have to pay for it. If we do not get all predators undercontroll nature will do it for us. Sorry I got off track again. When you hunt in most of region one and you can run 1 to 3 cats almost everytime you go out you have more than enough cats. No one regulation will work for the whole state of Mt. put what you do in one region does have consequences in other regions.

I agree 110% with you Steve. I haven't been hunting as long as a lot of guys on here but since around 1996 when I started I have seen big game go from a controlled predator pop. and a unbelievable ungulate pop. to an out of control predator pop. and a dwindling ungulate pop. I don't think it matters whether you have spent 80 years in the woods or 5 years in the woods to recognize the problem we have here. So far this spring I have saw more bears than I have ever saw in a whole year. Some areas I didn't see a ton of lions but for the most part the lion pop. looks abundant. I spoke with Craig the biologist for the bitterroot forest about the lion pop. and he has saw the same things. I have saw a few moose here and there but nothing like ten years ago. Seems like the deer pop. is ok in most areas I hunt. Elk not so good, lucky to see a herd of 10 or 15. Looks like we are going back to the Lewis and Clark days where you starve on this side of the mountains.

I am going to be in Choteau Mt. at the Grizzy Sports on July 3rd and the morning of the 4th. If any houndsman or hunters are in the area and would like to visit I will be avialable. Steve.

Started reading through the cat regulations. I am a little nervous. The cat quota for "my side of the river" is set to 30. 15 toms and 15 females. We have a solid cat population, but I fear 5-7 years from now we are in deep shit. Looked at some other areas, same type of situation. Things will be wild and crazy for a couple years and there will be a lot of "I told you so's" about a huge population of cats and big toms, but 5-7 years from now there are gonna be a lot of houndsmen dropping out and selling dogs. And by the time 2015-2018 rolls around we will be right back to 2000-2003, running 200-500 miles on your rig and snowmobile to find a cat just to run. Blast away, kill kill kill kill. Casey

PS In 5-7 I hope everyone is going to tell me that I was wrong, but this is the same thing that happened in the early 90's and by 2000 it was horrible. We can't kill 500 plus cats per year for 7 years and thing there will be cats left. That is 3500 cats. Same sort of all out kill was done in 1990's. Currently many of the quotas are 50% female, come on? So in a 4 year period 1000 females, and somehow we think the populations are gonna remain stable.

I agree with you 100%. the quota they are setting will damage the lion pop. especially after a couple years. I would like to see 8-12 tom and 2-3 female harvest where i hunt. 30 lion quota is crazy.

Well lets all stick together, no females killed over our dogs this year, or next... or the next

I had a very good book signing in Choteau, put did not have any houndsman stop by and chat, put I talked to a lot of big game hunters, they are not happy about the predators period. I spent a couple of hours with Jim at F&G the other day and talked about some kind of board. I do not think he is jumping up and down about the idea, but he said he would consider doing one. He knows he will get clobbered with a thousand different idea's on how best to handle the situation. I have talked to 5 houndsman so far that is interested in doing something. Jim gave me a list on how the mid density of lions in region one is. It is broke down into hunting units,female, males and kittens. I have no idea how accurate it is. Total for region one is 951 cats. That could be way high or low. I added up the permits and if everybody that draws a tag and shoots a cat in region one it will only come to 20 percent, you know that not everyone will shoot one. On the other hunting regions I have no information. It would be nice if somebody in each region would post what the F&G thinks there cat pop. is and how many cats they want to take out. I do not think for one minute that 20 percent will ever hurt the cat pop., I think we could kill 30 to 35 percent and not hurt the pop.. Back in the 60s, 70s and early 80s we were probably shooting 50 percent or more, it was not pretty. This is not going to be very popular, put most cat hunters in region one are spoiled. How many times can you go out and shoot an elk in one day, most hunters will not shoot one in a whole hunting season. So why should cat hunters be able to run 1 to 3 cats everyday they go out. Bigblues hit it right on the head, our ungulates pop. is dwindling fast. Granted it is not only the cats, there is just to many predators out there. There is getting to be a lot of hunters out there that absolutly hate predators of all kinds. They out number cat hunter 300 to 1 or more. There is going to be a big push to make lions, bears and wolves a predator instead of a big game animal. If this happens we will lose controll how and how many cats gets killed. It can not be said enough, the ungulate pop. is hurting. If we do not give the ungutates a chance to come back nature will do it for us.

What type of data do we need to ask for? The bio's in region 4 are very tight liped and not overly fond of the whole public records access thing.
Let me know what to ask for and I will contact them

Badlandcat, I spoke with Steve earlier and basically what he told me was to contact your regions biologist and find out what they figure the lion population is for your region and how exactly they figure it. You shouldn't have any issues getting this info from them, its their job to share this info. Once you have your info then you can figure out the percentage of the lion population that will be harvested this next season. Or at least get a rough idea. I will be getting the stats for region 2 this week and will share the info I receive. Curious what other regions turn up with and how they calculate/guestimate the population.

Something we need to be aware of this year when cat hunting starts is guy's trapping for wolves. Houndsman's need to be aware of the area's you are turning loose and where the trap lines are. We need to help these trappers as much as posible. If we find an area where wolves are running, we need to let the trappers know.