The Ultimate Bobcat Dog, PART ONE...

[Dan McDonough]

One of the lurcher males is heading to AZ. from IA. so there may be more reports than just mine on these dogs. That should make this project even more interesting! I believe it will be hunted on lions with hounds. Keep checking in to see what happens here. There are circumstances there that call for some serious brainwork and a silent to semi-silent dog in order to get the job done more efficiently. I think the lurchers could fit in there really well and I'm excited to hear how it goes.

[david]

Just a quick response to hunting a dog too early. I totally dis agree I have trained lots of good dogs and always start them about 7 months in hard races.... These dogs don't live long enough to start them late.... really all to gain nothing really to lose.

Flip, just to let you know that you are in agreement with most people I have known or hunted around. I always started my dogs as early as they would go, and I always knew when they would go because I took them along for the ride even when they would not yet go. And I know John Wick is not god, there are folks who disagree with him on this point and other points as well. But I tell you what, when John feels as strongly about something as he does this, I pay attention, and I start to go back through all the dogs I have owned and trying to re-evaluate. Yes they were good dogs, but could they have been better? And my future practices are at least a little bit influenced. Through his influence I developed the philosophy of always keeping them wanting more when they are young.

John does not just accept what everyone else beleives, he tests every theory with real dogs and real experience. He has trained hundreds of top bred hounds, and he believes without a doubt the final product is something less than it could have been when the dogs are hunted hard too young. John has made an important part of his living selling top potential young dogs at various stages of training. Don't you think he would want to get them trained as soon as possible simply from a business stand-point? He doesn't do it.

In Dan's case, I have also heard from those who raise running dogs that there is actually physical damage that young dogs can do to themselves when thier running gear is not ready for their drive.

I don't expect to change anybodies mind.

But Dan, next time you post pictures, those pups better look well rested. I know what rested dogs look like because I rest my dogs

[Jkohnke]

Not wanting to hi jack the thread and turn it in to something else but I will comment on starting too young. I raise and hunt running walkers for fox /coyote and deer. Most all my pups will start running in a starter pen with an old dog at 5 or 6 months. Most are just running the old dog and some are truly running game. That being said I start them slow and light and short little races with no pressure. Within a few weeks of this those pups will be really turning it on and doing what I call pulling. "Trying to run for the front and really liking the game they are smelling". Can you ruin them ? Yep you sure can. I can take those pups at 9 months old and throw them in an all night coyote race with some 3 and 4 year old dogs and I promise much of that and they want be physically able to stay in a race. I've seen it time and time again. I've ruined pups and young dogs that could really run their game by throwing them in races they had no business being in. Their bone and muscles aren't developed at that age to take that kind of abuse. A running walkers brain trumps what his body is telling him. I've seen many a pup ruined with shoulders blown out and crippled for life because they were in races they had no business in. Just what I've experienced.

[Dan McDonough]

The snow is completely crusted and there is only one good thing to do with it...time to test feet and see what I've got. Today I'll put Tommy and Foxy out with two tough footed leopards and see who lifts their feet first.

[Dan Edwards]

Sorry Dan but my "secret weapons" gonna put the hurt on your lassie pups. HAHA! Jokin of course. By the way, Yeti is a freak and should be doing his thing next year all by his lonesome. He likes the sharp end like all good dogs do.

[Dan McDonough]

10-4, I'm not going to be running the lurchers on coyotes. I don't think they would have the sand for it by all of the reports. My female seems pretty hard but they'll change some in that department by 2 1/2. I got a awesome stag male from Bruce O'Mally to replace Yeti but to tell you the truth, I could have used his extra height here this winter, the snow was extra deep. It sounds like he's going to be pretty nice. I was comfortable selling him because he had such a good personality and attitude. I figured he was going to be an easy dog to be happy with. I do regret selling him but I still think he's a bit big for this country. I got along with that dog really well and it's nice to hear about him.

[Dan Edwards]

If you cant get along with that silly actin bastard then you don't need to own a dog. He is a pure pleasure to be around. I'm not quite sure what you mean bout being too big for your country though. I understand that he is a big lump but almost all real coyote dogs are at least 28 to 29 inches at the shoulder. I've yet to see a good male dog that wasn't that big so not really sure what you were lookin for. The only truly junk big dogs that I have seen were when folks go to tryin to breed that BS deerhound and wolfhound into the coyote dogs. Then they are most definitely "too big" cuz they were garbage to begin with. And I was only jokin bout my "secret weapons". I didn't figure you'd be running them lurchers on coyotes too much anyhow. I wish you would take the time to look into some of the squirrel dog blood for this lil project of yours though. I'm not talkin bout the comp type dogs that these boys blow smoke about but I've seen some different dogs over the years that I think would make your eyes light up. For instance I know of some elkhound cur type crosses that would put a smile on your face.

[Dan McDonough]

I always say that if your cat dog doesn't have a little squirrel dog in it's brain it ain't going to tree very many cats so I'm right with you on that one. I haven't had any experience at all with elk hounds but I would sure like to see one. The same goes for likas. I would like to see a top example of one of those. There are a lot of dogs out there that have the lights on up stairs and I'm constantly looking out for them. I have a mtn. cur that is pretty good but she's proven to be a little nippy with people.

I'm going to make an effort to search around and find something to hunt with along the lines of dog your talking about. I think you have a good point.

On a side note...I know a guy in WI. that had some 1/4 coyote, 3/4 mtn. curs that could catch nearly anything you put them on. I don't know if I would want to deal with some of the side effects of breeding with coyotes but it's something to remember anyhow.

[Dan Edwards]

I wouldn't have anything to do with a coyote cross of any kind. I own dogs that are a helluva a lot better than any coyote ever been born so I don't need to down grade my dogs in that way especially. Anyhow back to the elkhound type squirrel dog though. Partner you need to see it to believe. I sure as hell didn't have any faith in them til I witnessed how they were in the woods. Them lil wound sons a guns were firing on all cylinders the moment they were unsnapped and I tell ya what they used every single sense they have to tree squirrels. Ears, eyes, nose and most importantly their brain. Just amazing lil dogs to say the least.

[Dan McDonough]

I'll check it out thoroughly. I've heard about those dogs over the years but as with most folks I'm sure the thought of having to cut the burrs out of their coat all of the time is not an attractive thing. I would imagine that the coats would be short in the first cross with a mtn. cur.

[Dan Edwards]

You would not have to be cutting the burs out of any coats on these dogs. They are only quarter elkhound anyhow. There daddy is half and half and they have bred him to anything and everything and they all tree. He has been bred to collies, plots, I think pretty much anything he is bred to trees.

[Dan McDonough]

I like the sound of that.

[Dan McDonough]

You got any more of those coming?

[Dan Edwards]

I've never owned any of them. I just seen them go a few times and I was convinced they could be useful for treeing cats. They got a set of eyes on them and they fly through the woods like you wouldn't believe. Their athleticism is absolutely amazing.

[Dan Edwards]

Speakin of the secret weapons. I figured you would really enjoy this Dan. These lil chits walk around up there on that 2x4. The perch up there like a damn cat. And the best part is that Yeti don't eat them. HAHA!