Serious Question!

[scrubrunner]

I understand y'alls thinking, hunted that way most my life but now I have broke fox/cat dogs. I Truely enjoy knowing when I hear one open, that it's a fox or cat. And y'all can call BS if you want but I can tell which it is pretty quick by the sound of their voices.

[mark]

There are guys that have hunted their whole life and all they know about their dogs mouths is they are either bawl or chop.

[Cowboyvon]

They do have a voice of there own for different critters.. what I always get a kick out of is when I am hunting pups with the older dogs and they are opening on just about everything the older dogs just ignore them ..and then you get that one bark and they all go to check it out ...

And also I didn't read all the way through this but as far as cold trailing a lion before the jump, I know you can be just moving along just fine moving the track like your going to get her jumped and then things slow down to a stand still .. I know location of the track can cause that but I also she goes from just walking along to sneaking .. not really turning off her scent but surely not leaving as much

[pegleg]

You know oddly enough i can't say the dogs have ever caught many kittens or nursing female's here. And the times it has happened in my memory seems to really be other places. In fact I don't think I've ever seen a cat less then nearly grown in the desert. Maybe its similar to fawns and calves. I know a dog has to see a new born calf to actually find it. They can trail the mother real easy but those baby calves they have to see and young dogs act surprised the first few times and go up and sniff them all over if they can . Maybe its just a different scent. On lion the dogs nearly always take a toms track first . guess theyd have to have everything in a lab studying the scent molecules each animal looses to understand why these things really happen

[Dan Edwards]

I know my son stinks but he don't stink as bad as my fat old ass.

[al baldwin]

Mark I have no doubts those folks you hunt with in Texas catch a bunch of cats. Also know there is a reason why they are hunting those running dogs. If there was any better for the country they hunt, sure they would have bought some a long time ago. Also know a hunter here who hunted daylight to dark, twelve strait days in the rain storms at the end of season, covering many miles, boxing dogs from inside the box. This hunter is about 75 years old, struck six tracks the dogs could jump, catch all six. That would be a two day hunt for those guys in texas. But here by my standard that is a success. Of coarse if he had the cat population, maybe he could have caught thirty. This hunter has hunted those type endurance days & hours for the last 50 plus years I have known him. This hunter I believe could tell us exactly how many validated cats he has caught in he/s life, however seriously doubt that will ever happen. This a little information I thought hunters in other areas might find interesting. Al

[mark]

Al,one thing that struck me funny in both Texas and Arkansas was that even with as good of a population as they have there were trips where cats weren't found at all and trips where we just trailed.

[macedonia mule man]

John, I still can't find a good answer to your question. Maby I overlooked it.

[dwalton]

The original question may or may not have been answered. We all have our opinion no matter what it relates to and I think most of it is based on our thoughts and beliefs on what happen. When it comes to scent when hunting with hounds [ any another thing as far as that goes] it is all made up, just a guess based on what we have seen happen or hear. It seems to me that the less we know the surer we are that that is the way it is. It is sure nice to see a guy that just does know and wants to learn what others think instead of making up a story as to what happens or knowing what happened. Not knowing is a uncomfortable place for a human to be but it is the best place to start. You just don't know what you don't know, in spite of the story we make up. This has been a good inquiry. Thanks for thinking and sharing Dewey

[david]

... When it comes to scent when hunting with hounds [ any another thing as far as that goes] it is all made up, just a guess based on what we have seen happen or hear. It seems to me that the less we know the surer we are that that is the way it is. ...You just don't know what you don't know, in spite of the story we make up....Dewey

I sure have enjoyed this thread. There are several quotes written recently that are classic. Some of them made me think hard, some made me laugh hard. Like I am not sure where're I read it, might have even been a different thread, but someone asked a guy what his dogs were running and he said "it doesn't matter, as long as I don't see it."

That still makes me laugh.

But a lot has been said about Mr. Finney Clay, and it made me think of one of my all time favorite posts on here. It was written by CRA, who, in my opinion, is just a phenomenal and poetic writer. I wish he would write a book on what he knows of the California varmit dogs. PLEASE!)

It took awhile, but I found it, and I hope CRA doesn't mind me bringing it forward, but here it is:

I just recently got back from cat hunting down with Mr. Finney Clay and C. John Clay. Boy’s it was a true honor to watch and listen to their well bred pack of dogs, rig, jump and then smoother a cat track to death for over 50 solid minutes without making a bobble on the track. Mr. Clay’s dog’s applied tremendous amounts of track pressure on that cat in some of the most god awful saw briars and reprod thickets in the South East. If you have never listened to a pack of about 14 cat hounds bunched up so tight on a cat track that you could cover the entire pack with a blanket, you are truly missing out. It’s quite a rock concert!
What impressed me the most about Mr. Clay’s dogs performance on that hunt was during our hunt the majority of the dogs he had on the cat was just a bunch of pups and young dogs not over 1 to 2 years old. We rigged those dogs right through whitetail deer as they boiled across the road in front of the rig, while the dogs were up on the box and not one time did a dog even try to bump one. Not to mention all the other trash they passed by. If you have ever been to Arkansas you would know that it’s loaded with Armadillos, Opossums, Beaver, River Otter, Muskrats, Mink, Coons, Coyotes, Hogs, and in places Fox & Bear just tons of critters that love to lure in young hounds. So keeping all them young dogs together and straight on just cat is a huge accomplishment. Those young dogs handled like old time Farm Sheppard’s. Mr. Clay is blessed that he has a top notch “Dads Dogboy” there to help with the hard work that it takes to own, and maintain such a nice cat pack.

Even if I didn’t get the pleasure of watching & listening to fine hounds run a cat until the cat decided it’s had enough and waved the white flag, the trip would have been “A Cat Hunter’s dream vacation”. The reason I say that is Mr. Clay has the most impressive breeding program that I have ever witnessed. He has his dogs pedigree’s down on paper and traced down so well that it’s overwhelming to take it all in. His attention to detail and record keeping on dogs and hunts, is something I have never seen before. It is truly amazing. Mr. Clay has figured out a way through his careful thought out family breeding program to reproduce cat dogs that basically reproduce themselves.

I have meet a lot of top hunters in my life that have been very successful with hounds and the quarry they pursue, but I have only meet a few that could completely excel at both hunting their quarry and run a top breeding program that consistently produces hounds of top notch caliber. If there is such thing as a “Dog Whisper”, I believe Mr. Clay is one.

I have been blessed throughout my life to have been able to hunt with some of the best cat dogs and cat hunters around and Mr. Clay is top notch and sets my measuring stick to a new level. At 83 years old he is still tough as a cob and humble as they come. I think the Webster dictionary should use his picture when you look up the term “Catnap”. A word like “Catnap” had to have come from a cat hunter like Mr. Clay because if you cat hunt with him you are only going to get a quick “Catnap” before he has you back in the woods Cat hunting again. I could only imagine how tough he was when he was young. I would have to say probably about as tough as one of his Clay hounds.

Fellows if you get an invite from The Clays to come for a cat hunt, I highly recommend you take them up on it. Mr. Clay, Mrs. Clay and Mr. C. John Clay will take good care of you and feed you very well and provide a nice soft bed. Within 5 minutes of being there I felt right at home and it reminded me of the good old days when I would sit and swap dog hunting stories with my Grandpa and Dad. I can’t wait to get down there for another cat hunt.

Thanks for the hospitality and allowing me to go along. I enjoyed every minute of it! I am very lucky to live not too far away from The Clay’s and get an open invitation personally from Mr. Finney Clay to come whenever, I get the inch. Mr. Finney Clay may regret that because I already got the itch to go back for another hunt! Again, Thanks Mr. Finney Clay & Mr. C. John Clay for the hunt and first class treatment.

Mr. C. John Clay I want to personally say thank you for sharing your Dad with me and other cat hunters. If it wasn’t for you, I would have never had the opportunity to meet a Southern Cat Hunter of his caliber. In my past experiences with cat hunters of Mr. Finney Clay’s caliber they were just like phantoms in the woods and elusive as the bobcat. Other hunters would hear they existed but very few ever meet them and dang sure never got the chance to hunt with them. You made that possible for me and a few other hunters. Until next time hunt hard and enjoy the time spent with your Daddy. Life goes by way too fast, but these hunts and hounds sure can give us some fond memories and friendships that last forever.

[david]

Ok guys I want to pick your brains. I run bobcat in the south (Ms.) I have this happen too often and other hunters in the south experience the same. Dogs start a good track and move it well. At some point the dogs have a 'down' sometimes for a minute or so and other times much longer. Eventually a dog will pick it up again but can hardly move it or dogs never find it again. I know that I don't have the best dogs in the world but some of these guys have pretty nice hounds. The only things we have in common are we all use running dogs, we are all hunting Ok, Ar, La, Ms, and Al.
So, what happens? Is it the dogs? Scenting condition? What?
Thanks in advance
John Sumrall


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank you for the good thread John

I really have been privleged to hunt with some top hunters and top dogs. And the most encouraging thing I took away from a combination of those opportunities was this: all those hunters had a lot of the same struggles I had [except for mark ]

The difference between me and them was: I saw them as struggles. They saw them as cat hunting.

[twist]

Like I've said in my first response if this is happening (to often) like stated once track is up and moving it's time to look for a different style of HOUND! Don't keep sugar coating the problem! Andy

[david]

...It seems to me that the less we know the surer we are that that is the way it is... Dewey

[al baldwin]

And also I didn't read all the way through this but as far as cold trailing a lion before the jump, I know you can be just moving along just fine moving the track like your going to get her jumped and then things slow down to a stand still .. I know location of the track can cause that but I also she goes from just walking along to sneaking .. not really turning off her scent but surely not leaving as much

------------Cowboyvon reading this got me to thinking. Last bobcat we treed this season, we had 8 hounds on the track, start to tree. Three one & half year, two between three & four & three old hounds that are past their prime. Track started out sounding good, soon hit a much slower pace, both Tom & I at one point, were thinking maybe a backtrack, a real treat we got to see a lot of struggles, as the dogs fanned out in different directions. Long story short, there was more one than one of those struggles, but turned out nice in the end, bobcat treed in fir tree, on the very edge of a big rock. Johnadam hope you read this, because we were very pleased with team work of all dogs on the trailing &jump.But,we both knew we would never seen this cat without those three old locating tree hounds. All these hounds have a bit of running blood in them, one female will ten this august, believe she was over four before she started treeing. We both wondered if she was going to tree at all . My opinion you may be treeing some cat & your dogs not locating. Find you a good locator, does not matter if it/s a lab, long as it locates & trees. Al

[merlo_105]

JohnAdam, I would look into finding a hard casting dog something that is going to get out of the mess and look for a clean track. If your GPS looks like a ball of tight yarn and no dogs casting out of it out of the mess find something that will. If there is a dog in there the other dogs trust or a dog with a powerful mouth opening inside the lose when it has some scent it may be keeping the other dogs in tighter to the lose.