lion guides

[pegleg]

I know this topic has been hashed out in public but whats the feelings of the sport hunters out there? where do you draw the line? a guide sets up a lion hunt on the cheap to cover expenses or pocket a little cash or maybe hunt some new areas. The hunter and guide get togather and hunt a few days and the client is getting worn down and restless. Then the guide decides well I don't want to refund his money"it's spent" but I can't make him show up. so affers to keep hunting and call when he trees something. now in my view it's wrong plain and simple. I don't guide but have been to some areas where it's required to have a guide. you don't sit in camp waiting for your guide to find game then jump in the truck and run out and plugg it. I know it's not legal and feel it's chicken hearted at best. let me hear it

[nmplott]

I feel that any guided lion hunt should only be for toms of a certain caliber (no exceptions). If a person flies out to the west and spends a lot of money on a hunt and comes up with a whole lot of nothing... too bad. Its a hunt and we all know that not every hunt comes up with a trophy or even a catch. t

[tman308]

I agree, not only is it illegal to do it in Arizona, but you don't get the memories of the hunt. In my opinion the events that lead up to the animal being treed are far more important then actually baggin a trophy. I also agree that it is called hunting, not Killing. You take a risk of coming up empty handed everytime you go to the field. If you have to kill something everytime you go out then in my opinion you should find a different sport.

[pegleg]

so guy would loose respect if he's boosting his lion numbers with hunters sleeping in waiting for the phone to ring? We don't have the lion numbers to be killing cats for people not willing to put the effort in for the trophy. and a guide should show a little respect for the very aspect of the hunt that gives him a job/reputation? funny how we have twenty pages of bickering about hounds barking on a rig but no one wants to voice a oppinion on this one

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I think these guys selling cats cheap are completley out to lunch, I hunt trophy class toms only and the hunters come expecting to only shoot a big one. If you out the time in and hunt hard the chances are good you will kill one in this area. But on the other hand they pay a big price to have a quality hunt and are will to come back if unsuccessful. Only a moron would guarrentee any sort of hunt.

[bristolblue's]

around here we only have one major guide really, i mean there are others but you don't hear alot about them, this guy when he has a hunter will literly kill anything that climbs, i know he killed a year old tom, and once killed three females in a week, He's a nice guy, but i know everybody with dogs dislikes him alot, including me. bad thing is he doesn't even need to guide, he has a business that does good, he just likes killing lions. he pretty much ruined a mountain from his guiding, but it wasn't all him either but he played the biggest part.

[Doogie]

if you would of been here before Buddy took over when it was still the Shadetree, both topics had been beat to death, this is just the latest round thats why no ones, or at least the people your wanting to respond and are not responding, its like beating a dead horse, just gets pointless after awhile. You should know by now what the general feeling towards guides in general and guides who do that are on here.

[Mike Leonard]

Doogie,

You nailed that! Boys it ain't money that is the root of evil it is the love of money, and when it comes to feeding the kids the dogs and shutting the old lady's mouth something is going to die to cash a check. Hell they are good enough sales people to sell and 70 pound female to a big paying client from the east coast so they need to anti up and shut momma up at the house. So why not get rid of the hassle of them bitching clients and leave them home till you get the lion caught?

Ok, Ok you know it is true there are some honest reputable outfitters out there offering a quality hunt and experience. Not many but some, so what do you do?

Well why not get ahold of their clients and tell them you will take them out for free just to enjoy the experience? I mean that would put them out of business and make them get a real job for a change. Oh ? You don';t want to do that? Well as long as there is money and the law allows it, crap is going to happen. I don't like it, some of you don't like it. Zeus is rolling over in his grave , but if somebody has an answer please share. I have tried to educate about the killing of female and sub adult lions, and corrupt practices that make all hound hunters look like shit in the law's eyes, but most just think I am an old crabby guy. Maybe I am, and maybe Zeus was by we by God were not some outfitters, or sudo outfitters broke dick won't work jerk's damn pimps.


Sorry I don't know where that came from, guess I will crawl back under my log. LOL!

[Ike]

Sorry Mike but I don't understand what you don't like, people killing bitch lions? or people guiding for a living? Please clarify...............cause if you're saying guides and outfitters are pimps for taking clients hunting then I will speak on the other side of the issue.....

ike

[pegleg]

as for the shade tree site I know it's been hashed out before but from the stories I've gotten from some "hunters" on their lion hunts I thought it should be brought up again as it didn't sink in.
I don't have a issue with guides or proffesional hunters or game managers. so long as they don't get the god or Zeus syndrome and think those rules don't apply to them.
If a hunter won't fallow those hounds every step of the way they don't deserve a cat much less the respect of any hunter.
but more importantly the guide should have the balls to stand up. it's not the 1800's or 1900's and the population won't stand "cowboy lion killers" tracking down every cat they can and killing it. wipeing out a lion population isn't all that hard. and if your area is hunted out maybe you should think about that and how it happened before you move over to another area and pull the same bs

[bristolblue's]

no sh*t, if the lions are gone theres a reason for it, if you in to dogs just to kill, then you in the wrong sport. I have no problem with guides, actual guides, in my eyes a guide is to take someone out and kill them a trophy, well a female isn't a trophy animal in anyone's eyes, nor is a sub adult male. some one who take their clients out and have them shoot the first thing to climb, isn't a guide, nor a houndsmen, they are just killers. i know some mistakes happen cause i've made a few, but only an amutar lion hunter doesn't know the difference betweed a female lion, and a trophy tom. i can also see having some hunter take an old female, if there is alot of lions around, But i can't stand a guide who just kill's anything, there is no sport in killing females, they aren't really hard to catch, nor do they travel as far as most toms. in my opinion if you kill females you aren't a real guide.

[Yard Dog]

I don't mind a guy providing an honest service, however when it becomes "owed" to them it rubs me wrong.
Years ago we were pursuing in Current Creek. We had cut a medium size lion track that had crossed the road (nothing special). It was after a good fresh snow and we had some year old pups we wanted to get going. We put the pups on the track and they trailed out above us on the hillside. We were leaning on the trucks listening to the dogs work the track when a guy came up the road on a snowmobile. He pulled up, shut off his sled and asked what we were doing. After a short bit of small talk this asshole proceeds to inform us that he is a guide who has a client comming in for a lion hunt and then informs us that there is some sort of guide code or "gentlemens agreement" that when a guide has a hunter that all others should clear out untill they fill thier tag.
Well, he was told in no uncertain terms where the bear shits in the woods....So, he huffs off, hops on his sled and away he went...Oh well....

Point being, I'm sure there are some good guides out there that provide a good honest service, however IMO there are many more that view themselves as somehow entitled or owed special treatment. They seem to forget they do not own the game or control the public land where it is located. And this does not just pertain to lion hunting.

[Ike]

It kinda of sounds like people are complaining then because guides have their clients kill bitch lions. And I'll jump on that band wagon cause the population of lions just doesn't withstand too much of that. However, a bitch killer is a bitch killer and it doesn't matter if the sportsman is killing it or if a hounddogger is taking a buddy along so he can be the hero for the day. Being the hero is being the hero, and a bitch hits the ground a bitch hits the ground no matter who pulled the trigger. So let's leave the guide shit out of it if bitch killing is the problem cause I've seen plenty of hound doggers be the hero of the day and kill bitches when they don't have a guide license--and a dead bitch is a dead bitch!

ike

[liontracker]

I think the point of the original question, was wether this illegal outfitting activity should be reported?

[Ike]

Then people should stick to the topic and not jump on guides for having their clients kill bitch so they could gt a check. We (or I) had about quit guiding lion hunters because the population was hammered half a dozen years ago; however some of the local boys say the lion population is on the come back. Regardless, if we do take on a client he is told it's a trophy hunt and those big toms are few and far between; they are also told lots of the local people are after them and have tags. If they want to book any way, after they have been discouraged, they pay in full before they get in my truck so there is never a need to kill to cash a check!

ike