THINGS YOU LOOK FOR IN A BARE GROUND STRIKE DOG FOR LION

[Mike Leonard]

I was thinking about this today as I was riding up a canyon that was suppose to be a lion hangout. In the bottom it was rutted and cut out with beef cattle tracks and scattered elk tracks. It was a mild night last night here and when I left out it was 44 Degrees, but by the time we hit the ground it was in the mid-50's and went up from there. The dogs were fresh and they hunted out good but the only place we could ride the horses was close to the base of the bluffy sides of the canyons and I knew lion prefer altitude to stalk and observe game. Now either we had to circle and find a way up to these rims or we had to depend on the dogs to hunt the bluffs out for us. I noted one of my older dogs made his way up to the center line of the bluffs and was hunting it out as we progressed. This was good and I expected that of him but I looked up ahead of him and saw Nash a younger black and white Nance walker dog swinging thru those boulders ahead of the black dog. I had noted for some time his proactive style of hunting and seeking game, and I mentioned I think he might become a better than average strike dog.

Now I know some authors say that every dog they hunt is a top notch stike dog on lion. That sounds good to the novice but to experienced hunters it is a clue as fresh as a hot lion track to a good dog.They don't know what a really good strike dog is.

So I just thought I would throw this out to you lion hunters out there and see what you look for in a new upstart strike dog candidate for your pack?

[pegleg]

i guess i don't know enough to pick a strike dog prospect right off. I can't really say one seems headed for greatness untill i've hunted it some and had a chance to really watch it and see how it handles different things thrown at it. like topics in the past a busy hound that thinks and is usually in the right places. and always seems to think things over first. you know the young hound thats busy doing his own thing and another dog yelps. now he lifts his head and looks but doesn't me to right then. he thinks over what he's doing a bit first and it seems like he's waiting for more info from the other hound. but that same hound wil bust ass getting there if he really knows the other hound has it. that hound will stick out for me. I think the dogs age has a big bearing on what you should be looking for to. however most real good cat dogs i've seen seem more level headed and mature at what ever age. guess it's like anything else it takes longer to explain then it does to recognise. and they do seem to stay looking not just sniffing. most are pretty damn independent.

[Mike Leonard]

Peg,

that is good stuff there! I really like that independant spirit. Not to the maverick or renagade side but one that is out there but will qualify and quantify another's findings.

What do you think about some dogs bonding to an old strike dog? Maybe it is just a similar fashion years apart but to mje I have seen some that almost seem to seek the mentor and the mentor checks them out and then sort of bonds back to them.

Busy dogs are great to me as long as they have purpose.

[pegleg]

i don't know if the pup is great because of the mentor or selected the mentor from a common purpose but i have seen it. they do seem close it's like that olddog respects what the puphas to add but won't put up with most pups at all. but even in this bond theres that independence. like i was trying to say that pup thinks about who's wimpering but if it's that old hound they hustle right over

[Mike Leonard]

Right on!

I see this often as dogs each find their place in the pack but just like some folks , some dogs are prone to talk a lot about mothing and these types of dogs figure that out quick and pay them no mind. but let on of the old troopers let out a signal and they will light a shuck and head that way pronto.


Now I don't want folks to think that ai was knocking anybody's pack of dogs I have been out with guys who have a pack of say 7-8 dogs and they are all working ringing those tails smelling rocks and brush and working as you go along. Now some would say they are all strike dogs and in a broad sense they might all be if the come across the track, but as I related primarliy the true strike king is a little bit different, and it is that dog dog or bitch that makes the real difference so much of the time.

A guy in real thick lion country might be a little slower realizing the true value of a certain individual if he can herd them down the trail and run over lion tracks. But as you turn to the out back of the beyond where lions may be present at times but not often it is that strike dog that never gives up hope and spirit and it constant vigilant to seek the faintest trace of lion scent as an addict would seek his fix.

[johnnie hamilton]

When I hunted the dirt in Texas it seemed like my best strike dogs were the independent ones. When I look at pups or raise a litter I look for the pup that likes to be independent and is always investagating things on there own. A lot of these independent pups will give you gray hair, because they are not always the easiest to get a handle on. I had a lot of dogs that would just work out in front of me, but the best dogs were the ones that seemed like they new were the lion would travel or make scrapes. They would be the ones working from one side of a bluff to the other and going underoverhangs etc... When you see a dog doing that it is natural ability not something a houndsman can teach. I also used brass bells on the dogs to hear where they were at. You find out real quick by listening to the bells which dogs are really out there working an area over.

[sourdough]

I see true leadership in a good strike dog! It’s amazing how even the pups recognize it. I have had some good dog’s that would be first class strike dog’s on their own, but they always turn to the leader to check themselves on an old cold track and in a lose it’s that leader that says let me be the judge of that. Strike dogs are born not made and they stand out at an early age. I would like to say that they are subtle hint’s, but there not these pups are bold in their actions and with no training aid will spend hours trailing ground squirrels if that’s all they have to work with to get their fix, these pups have a great memory they will check every place they have gotten a scent trail days afterwards, But with that old strike dog, they’re just part of the pack. Leave that old dog home and you will see what rank the others have and you will find your new leader. Independent hounds are what makes a good lion hunting pack, that’s for sure, but you must have them be as one on the trail of El gato.

Sourdough

[Benny G]

This is good stuff guys. These dogs that end up standing out as strike dogs have shown up at a young age when given the opportunity. The level of maturity and desire are what I seem to notice early on. The mention of "getting thier fix" is a huge indicator. I relate the needing of the fix as a sure enough addiction to hunt, and along with it comes drive. I have never had a top notch strike dog that lacked drive. They also have more focus than the dogs that I would label as just groupies. These young strike dogs to be are recognized early by the lead dogs, and are given credibility and encouragement by thier mentors. No one will ever see these qualities without actually being with the dogs while they are trailing.

[Mike Leonard]

Dang this is some good stuff!

Johnnie, your comment about the brass bells is an excellent tip! This not only helps you but it helps those other dogs sort of beam in on that team leader. I watch those dogs you are talking about that go from side to side just seeming to know the spots a lion would travel.

Good little example what a difference a good strike dog can make.

A friend of mine and I decided to make a circle with the hounds and see if we could catch a lion he wanted to get some good photos for a painting he was working on. He had to go thru considerable pains to get his horse gathered up that morning and then get down to the area we were going to ride from. When we got there we found that another truck and trailer was already parked there and it had a hound box in it so we knew these guys were hunting this canyon. I felt kind of bad for this guy becasue he had high hopes. Well we discussed going to another spot and happened to look up and here came these other hunters back down the canyon towards their rig. there were three riders and about 10 hounds with them. I recognized one of them and waved as they rode up. this guy said sorry we beat you to your spot but no big deal ain't been a lion in there in weeks as far as I could tell.Well we talked a few minutes and they loaded up the horses and dogs and we said goodby and they pulled out. I noticed Jim had been looking down this canyon and I said what do you think Jim? He said I sure would have liuked to ride this the sky and the lighting are just right and I know I could get some good pictures. I said well let's dump the horse and dogs and get some excercize anyway. He said oh no we don't have to go to all that bother those guys already hunted the canyon out. I said let's go ahead and ride anyway because I noticed the way they were traveling and the dogs were just about single file behind them that they most likley didn't cover too much of it. Well I was right they had made several miles but after the first little ways it looked like their dogs had all stayed right there by the horses and they were not looking in very good shape. Long story a little shorter in about a mile right where they rode thru one of my two strike dogs sounded off way up under the bluffs and the dogs built to him. Lucky for us the lion had laid up very close to there and after about ten minutes of trailing we had a short jump race and ended up with a very pretty female lion in a large pinion pine tree. She was there when the others rode by as well but just like so many times without that strike dog you will never know it. Lions don't make tracks all over the place like footprints in the sawdust after as Saturday night dance. they walk in a very determined and stealthy critters. Stop and think about all the country you travel even say in a pickup truck when their is snow on the ground to find that one little line of tracks ?

It's a bunch!

[Big Mike]

The drive IMO is what seperates them. The dogs that are extremely drivin to hunt and catch are the ones that range out, stay busy always hunting, never trailing the horse. They are ussually the most independent and aggrevating and hardest to get a handle on too(at least all of mine have been)

I can ussually tell by 1 to 1 1/2 year old if the dog is going to have the drive it takes to be a great bare ground strike dog.

I have a registered bluetick I call Chunk who was one of the best strike dogs. He isnt super cold nosed but the most drivin dog to hunt and catch I ever had. In his younger years I could hardly get him to stay with me and the horse. He had just as soon hunt by himself as with me. He was silent on a cold track which also made him hard to stay with. Man he would piss me and my hunting partners off. But I can think of a dozen or more times I would have to go find the SOB after he snuck off and when i found him he would have a lion caught.

One old my favorite storys about that hard headed blue SOB was on a bear hunt. Myself and Marty and Jeff Greenwood went bear hunting around 1st of October. We had about 18 dogs all kind of broncy acting for lack of hunting. We were horseback riding down a steep trail to a spring in a box canyon. We get near the spring and all the dogs roar in a red hot bear chase. It was a hell of a neat sound in the box canyon. There was no way out of the canyon for about a mile. We followed the roar until they eventually took the bear out of the canyon. We rode up on a high point to listen and we could hear the dogs trailing away from us and we could hear Chunk baying back the way we came. So im thinkn whats that dumb SOB doing now. Me and Jeff ride back a mile to find Chunk while Marty and his hunter followed the rest of the pack. When we found chunk he had him about a 6 month old lion bayed up in a bluff. He must of snuck off before the bear chase or decided he would rather catch him a cat than ol stinkn bear LOL. we caughtthe bear too but we had to ride home in the sparks of horseshoes to do it. That was a long day!

[BEAR HUNTER]

Mike I understand exactly about needing the dogs to actually get out at check for tracks rather than just walking along in front of you winding. Last month I took a couple of my bear dogs and a buddy down to some rice fields and canals for a coon hunt. My buddy's dog is a sure enough coon dog. The area we were hunting was bone dry rice mud with a canal running along side. Between the road and the canal was thick berry bushes and rose bushes with blowdowns and huge black walnut trees. We put my buddies good coon dogs and one of my bear dogs down to road. These dogs just ran along in front and wouldnt check the areas where the coon were hunting. Finaly after about 20 minutes of this I got out my little trigg/english female I told you about. She is one of those busy type dogs that checks everything but has only seen a few bear races. She immediatly went into that thick brush. She was gone for about 5 minutes saying nothing. We heard her open from behind us where we had just "roaded" through. She had an old feeder track started down by the waters edge. The other dogs finaly went to her. She didn't wind the track she just went looking for one.
My point is if the dogs wont go where the game is they're not going to find it unless it crossed the road/trail. Works with bear hunting to. If you get out and walk a dog into a canyon or water hole alot of times you will get a track going when everyone else rigging through the woods cant find anything.

[white]

I look for a dog that is broke from alot of things fox,deer, coyotes, ext. Maybe its breeding seems some dogs love to strike and others wont bark tell they tree or see game. One of my dogs always strikes but if others start barking I know they got something, like a skunk

[catdogs]

What really makes them good, is it a cold nose, an intense desire to trail or are they just gamey in that they just seem to know where to look?

[pegleg]

i think its a smooth mixture of abilities and desire with brains in order for any of these things have much meaning. you can have the coldest nosed dog this side of Nome and if he don't hunt it don't matter. a super smart hound with no desire will make you miserable. and a dumbass with no brains or nose won't know who to follow or how to get there, and will end up being the best bay dog you ever saw but not much else.

[Ike]

I heard a wise old hounddogger once say a guy may have to stop his mule for a spell and just let those dogs work and work and area cause lion scent hugs and stays low to the ground--like a piss ant. Then the King of strike dogs has a little more time to grub around, such and blow, and eventually pull that scent up from below the ground......then it's "Game On" and if the mules aren't fast enough the hounds will surely stretch that lion.

ike