Lead dry ground dogs

[Lil Joes BigGame hounds]

How old were your lead dogs when you realized they had something special? What made those dogs shine? How did you pick this dog as a pup?

[Big Mike]

All the dogs that I have had that turned out to be above average, I could tell by the time they were a year old. It is the drive that seperates them. They couldnt trail an old dry lion track at that age but they had such a drive to hunt i could tell they were going to learn how to in time. Ive had slow starters that turned out to be good dogs but all the truely great ones I could tell at young age

I as far as picking them out of the litter, I always pick the ones with the longest ears so it was total luck

[Benny G]

My old Derrick dog was 6 months old when he saw his first lion. The lion had killed a calf and was caught in a trap. That lion killed one of the older dogs in the fight that took place. From that first lion fight at 6 months old, all Derrick wanted to do was get his teeth on lions. He would strike a track, but he wasn't confident enough to run the track until one of the older dogs said "Let's go!" By the time he was 8 months old he was striking and cold trailing tracks that some of the other dogs didn't acknowledge. He would pound tracks that we thought there was no way we would ever see the lion. He would stay with it sometimes until it heated up enough for some of the other dogs to throw in. I got him for free from a ranch family that I knew, and they just picked him and sent him to me. He died here at the house at 14 years old.

Toad was from completely different stock, but about the same way. From about 5 months old, all she was interested in were lions and bobs. At 1 1/2 years old, she didn't require any assistance from any direction. I had to put her down at 3 years due to cancer.

Tripp was the same age as Derrick. They grew up as hunting partners. The lion fight in the trap rattled her a little, but she was the absolute best locator I have ever been around. A lot of these dogs in the yard have her blood in them. She was also given to me sight unseen. She hangs around the yard here, spending the early mornings looking around, and when it gets hot she lays inside the sadle house.


I have picked pups out of a litter, but more often than not, something like color or the fact that they pick me is the reason that they take up residency here. If the genetics are there, I believe that they all have the same chance of shining. As little pups, they are constantly changing, so I don't know how to pick one that would be any different than a litter mate. The most important thing to do is to give them the very best opportunity to learn and shine when they are showing the desire.

[Clyde Lawson]

I agree with you Benny, seems if you have good genetics, some will "rise to the top" as cat dogs.

Strange and likely what keeps us all trying, out of a litter of pups they will normally be one or two that excels. Not that the other littermates are bad, but they don't suit my taste as well as that one or two do. That make sense?

That is reason I like to keep or know where all the litter of pups are and the type of training they have been exposed to, before deciding if that cross should be made again.
We all know if a young dog does not have a chance by not being hunted, how can one tell?

I'll bet a number of us have had young dogs that showed great promise at 6-8 months old, then by the time they are two years old---OOPs! We don't like them as well?

And, maybe my sorting stick is to long?

And, again, dogs like and excel on lion sometimes better then bobcats? Or at least when you bring them to our hunting area and try them out on our bobcats.

At two years, with enough exposure, I start sorting for what suits my style of cat hounds and what/where I hunt. Many times dogs just don't make cat dogs and make better bear or coon dogs. When that happens, that cross is not made again for my taste.

Clyde Lawson

[Nolte]

I can't consider myself any sort of a dry-grounder type since we pretty much only run bear on dry ground. And most times when guys talk dry-ground they are talking cats or lions.

In any case, it seems that the age of a lead dog depends on the situation. Most times you will know they've got the right mix pretty early. It just all depends on what they have to push through to become the "lead" dog. If you've got an all star lineup of studs, it makes it a little tougher for a green pup to shimmy up to the top spot. But when that old Ace passes on, don't be surprised if the rookie starts to rise.

Now if you've got a D-league reject pack like mine, it don't take no great shakes to get up towards the top. If they don't chew up their dog house and bay up their water dish, they are already in my top half.

I've seen a LOT of dogs get hunted from quite a few different guys. If I had to select the 5 best and base everying else on that, the gap between those abilities is grand canyon type huge. And I know of no easy way to consistanly get dogs like the top 5. And nobody I know does either, they just take them as they come and be thankfull for them when they stumble up on them.

[coadycurbow]

Joe, I don't know if East Tx is considered dry ground, but our dogs sure can't do it in the snow. We proved that last winter. Lol. The best young dog that I ever unloaded was finding her own game by nine months old. By the time she was fifteen months she wouldn't get out of sight. Looking back, I pushed too hard. Hunting a pup 25 out of 30 days is too much. It's like when they asked Bum Phillips why he was giving Earl Campbell so many carries in a football game. He said, "Why shoot a pop-gun when you got a cannon". We put her up for six months and she is starting to do good again. You didn't see her because she was in the heat pen.

I think a bunch of young dogs that are bred right, who could be cannons, get knocked in the head. I've got to the point where I TRY not to be very critical of a dog until they reach two years old. I don't hunt dogs until they are around a year old, I think they get discouraged when they get kicked out of too many races. I feel if a dog will go hunting when you carry them, all hope is not lost. When they reach two and won't go, I'm done with em.

That being said, I really believe the outstanding ones (I have hunted with four, and we aren't feeding one at the moment) are born and not trained. All we are is a ride for them to get afield.

If I am ever lucky enough to own a dog like that, I hope I have enough sense to get out of his/her way and watch what God has created.

[Mike Leonard]

All of the truely great lead dogs I have seen or owned have exibited one thing in common at a very early age. COURAGE (which translates to Gameness). It is a must for a leader, all those other great physical characterisics will not help them lead if they don't have this. I am not saying simply grit I am saying courage and that gameness to unwaveringly do the job and risk it all for it.


Example: I knew my Little Blue dog was bred right as were his brothers and sisters. their father was my well known Gunner dog which Jeff Allen raised. Jeff often referred to Gunner as just a great big huge heart with four fast legs under it. He knew no fear and no boundries when it game to catching the game. He died doing what he loved face to face with a monster lion never once wavering he knew he could whip that lion and hold him for me. He did but he paid the ultimate sacrifice but he would have it no other way. Little Blue's mother Josie same way and like Gunner after many years of catching time slowed her legs but not her desire and she too died as a result of paying the ultimate sacrifice. THESE DOGS WERE LEADERS AND THEY WERE GAMEY

Now not every pup in this litter displayed the same level of gameness but most all turned out to be better than average lion dogs. I saw however in Little Blue as early as 4 months that gameness that set him apart. I had taken a problem lion and when I got back to the place with it I threw it in one of those garden wagons and was going to haul it to the barn for skinning. But before this I pulled it into the side yard and turned this litter of 4 month old pups loose. they came boiling around that corner and ran right into that fresh dead lion laying there. I mean some of them let out a scream tucked their tails and ran like hell for the house, most of them in fact but not Little Blue. He literally flew into that lions and grabbed it twisting and jumping back bawling his eyes bugged out of his head and his voice quivering he wanted that lion. Yes he was scared his tail was tucked but he was all about getting ahold of it. He was Game! Two months later at 6months I watched him stand shoulder to shoulder with his father Gunner in the face of a huge 190 pound tom lion on a bluff I mean they were in his face and wanted him. Little Blue 's chest was tore open and the hide hung like an apron but still he was there wanting that lion more than life.As my son's rifle bullet broke the tom's neck and he pitched off the bluff I dived for Little Blue and got him by a hind leg and held him as I watched Gunner said off into space after the falling lion. Gunner survived the fall and we found him in the bottom still shaking the dead lion and as Little Blue got close he dived on him again. Since that day he has never wavered 11 years of hunting and leading, he may not be the best but one thing for sure HE WILL NOT QUIT!

[jube baker]

I had a pup out of Jiggs and my misty dog and this big old walker looking pup snoop, was one bad son of a bitch, he was trailing in the dirt at 6 months old, Damn Mike i wish i still had some pups out of jiggs.

[killroy]

I have a little female that I call Jiggs. A few years ago my brother, Lloyd and Mike got together and raised a litter of pups. I don't even know how Mike's Jiggs fit in this deal but I named the pup I took Jiggs. Maybe Mike can tell us how closely my Jiggs is related to his dog and maybe how old she is because I don't remember. I bred her to my Hank dog this spring but she didn't take.

[Mike Leonard]

Yes we bred Jiggs to one of Lloyd's females who was a redtick english type out of Val Robb's stock, I am, guessing they would be coming 5 now. John Childs also got one of the females and she is a real trail dog I have heard. Jiggs was sired by Jeff Allen's Hank dog and his mother was that old black Stan Meacham female that Jeff had around there and raised a lot of good dogs out of. I still have old Jiggs and he is a real sticker on a lion track. Chris Todd of Arizona, and Julian Baker out of Colorado also had some good dogs out of Jiggs. I went ahead and neutered Jiggs about a year ago. We didn't want to raise any more pups and he was one of those dogs that when a female went in heat around the place he would go off feed and just fret for 2 weeks. Right now looking at him I should have let his nuts in him because I have him on a seefood diet meaning I let him see a bowl of food and then take it away and he is still too heavy. He will suck up once we start hunting him harder in the fall and winter but he is not a warm weather dog at all. It's not the high tan color so much I think as it is the heavy hair coat that came from the bloodhound part in his mother.That bloodhound made him sort of a one man dogs as well. He is a kind dog but he won't handle or allow himself to be handled by anybody but me. I have noticed that in a number of dogs with some blood pooch in them.

[killroy]

I did try to get a litter of pups out of her this spring. but it seems like right now it is tough to sell grade pups so i dont know if i will try agian or not.

[Mike Leonard]

I guess it might be hard to sell grade pups unless the guys that hunt them know the line they are out of . I will say if they do any bare ground hunting they might be well advised to check out a pup out of your Jiggs if she can take a bad track like her Daddy, boy he is one determined track dog.

[killroy]

I have a registered blue tick that is my best dog. really cold nosed. But I think there would be more interest in the pups if they were out of one of Lloyds Samson bred dogs. What do you think???????

[Mike Leonard]

For sure a lot of interest in the Samson dogs and I have two of them here at my place a male and a female, and I like them, but it still all depends on the cross he is only half of the deal. But I think if a guy was just wanting to sell pups that might be right but if you were looking for another real cold pounder you might consider crossing her right back on old Samson while he is still alive and then you could take those back to the Samson/Washburn cross and might really have a long term deal. But just for selling purposes it seems folks like papers even if they don't plan to breed.




However the highest selling pups I know of right now that have a waiting list in the big gmae world are grade dogs. Some of these would make Del Cameron's $800. pups seem pretty reasonable but I just don't have that kind of jack to throw around.

[killroy]

jiggs is very cold nose and loves to hunt but but hangs up and can be kinda slow trailing. My male dog Hank, registered blue tick is a really good cold nosed dirt dog but can be slow trailing too. I have hunted Lloyds Cumo dog with my pack alot and he trails alot faster than my dogs and usually is out in front. He is registered Walker and out of Samson. So I figured that might be a better cross than Hank. So they would still be graded dogs either way.