Trail Camera Clips

[sourdough]

Not trying to be a know it all. But I believe that long tail is their steering wheel,for those of you that may not have any idea. So if you’re running from a bear you had better zigzag or change direction (short tail). Mr. Lion well stand your ground (long tail) and let the chips fall where they may. Thanks Dawg for sharing your videos, sure gets a guy to thinking. I didn’t know that a little bit of visual aid could lead to as much speculation as it has. You didn’t dock that tail did you? I never try to out guess the nose of my hounds even when I think I know better. How many bob tail lions have any of you seen? And how many of you female Lion preservers are docking tails?

sourdough

[Brady Davis]

I'm not sure any tail dockers would admit to it sourdough. That said, in Utah especially it may be a great idea Seems the DWR there is OK slaughtering all their cats (they are killing the whole deer herd ya know) or at least the SFW says so. If I was a payin client and got to a tree of a fat female and she had no tail, I wouldn't wanna take her!

I just wanna know if a guys dockin tails, how the crap he's getting it done? LOL I'd pay to see this go down...Really, I'll pay $$ guys....

[Benny G]

There have been folks that, when treeing a female, would shoot her in the tail in order to jump her out. By shooting the tail, it's the same as recieving a bite through the tail, and thus damaging the blood supply. When that happens, after a little time, the tail portion below the damaged spot falls off. Thus, "tail docking". AND THAT IS THAT!!

[George Streepy]

And that is messed up. Most lions will jump if you throw a stick or snow ball at them.

Mutilation to prevent other hunters from harvesting is some what extreme if you ask me. A real man would climb the tree or go out on the ledge, wrestle the cat into submission, and do something that is less likely to have adverse effects. Something like cropping the ears. A large butterfly branded on its flank would work too. Nobody wants a trophy with a tramp stamp.

[tman308]

From everything I have watched on big cats the tail acts like a rudder. Helps them balance when running along a ridge after their prey. I am sure that the lion learns to compensate for the missing tail fairly quickly or they wouldn't be around for us to see.

Awesome video clips, guess you know where to take the hounds now!

[HoundDawg]

As for the lions tail, I have some video of a lion bailing out of a tree and running down a steep hillside and up the other side. My buddy slowed it down with some software, so it was in slow motion. Pretty cool to watch how that lion used his tail. I think a good analogy might be an elite cornerback in the NFL. While most people just believe raw speed is all it takes, from what I understand the real key is what they do with their hips, not so much their speed. So I know the tails are not just decorative.

As for tail docking, I think desperate times call for desperate measures, and many are starting to realize lion hunting is in a desperate situation here in Utah. They have moved on from "Harvest" and "Hunting" to EXTERMINATION!! Some hunters have decided to do what they can to protect the lions from extinction here.

But the sad thing is the Outfitters I know around here (and I won't mention names because you know them anyway)... it won't stop them. If they treed that pregnant female with the docked tail it would die in 3 seconds. And there would be two or three "hound guys" as they call themselves, standing under the tree taking pictures after.

So I don't think Tail Docking will stop anything, but maybe they'll at least feel like they tried to do something instead of stand by and watch the slaughter-fest. And it's not just Outfitters who are guilty either, there are people reading this site who are part of the problem and we've probably all been guilty at one time or another of bad judgement. I know I have.

[Mike Leonard]

Hey sorry I hit a nerve guys but that is where I was aiming. Not only has this practice been around for decades and has spread from it's local roots I am told in the heart of the bee-hive state. Houndawg is correct this won't prevent people from dropping the hammer on them in a minute. Also for those guys saying they have seen a lot of plump female lions runnning around with docked tails then they must be doing all the good in that local area.

Here is the real rub, just like Benny, and Dawg, and Sourdough and a few others long term professional lion men they know that in steep rugged country the lion with a short tail will be a a disadvantage not only killing prey but also escaping from enemys. And yes lions do have enemys and not all of them are 2 legged.

But maybe even a bigger factor is knowing we have a lot of anit hunters, anti blood sports people surfing these forums continiously. They key on statements like this send operatives to check it out and the next thing you know they have one more bullet point to use as a nail to permanently close the case for hound hunting in every state. These groups are a powerful lobby and very well organized and funded. The pressure politicians with money and votes and these politician then hammer the state's game department and threaten to cut budgets with hold find and cut programs if they don't adopt plans that will keep these groups out of their leaders hair. More and more state are moving towards bans little by little on trapping and sport hunting or killing for fun as they call it. These last changes that were discussed in Albuquerque,New Mexico yesterday were rolled out on the Grand Ballroom of the Marriot, with over 600 in attendance and their mind was made up before they got there. They want to cut the predator base down in 4 years as they move to adopt more restrictive hunting and trapping legistlation that mirrors west coast laws. The states spend more money policing and dealing with hound hunters than they make. It is a thorn in their flesh and with this added political pressure they get sick and tired of hearing it and dealing with it.

So we cannot feed them more ammunition like this and then wonder why we get it sent back to us straight betwen the eyes.

Don't think they can not shut lion hunting down. Californians thought that too, and that has been a lot of years ago. And the old saying goes as California goes so goes the nation.

Scary I know.

Sorry for the hurt fellings but this is serious business.

[JasonBB]

great share on the vids thx

[larry]

So why didn't you say that in the first place Mike instead of doing what you did and creating a long drawn out specific discussion on the thing you are now saying shouldn't be disscussed on here?????? If you were aiming at that nerve a continued disscussion was inevitable! Just trying to save face it looks like to me.

[houndnem]

Mike, youre right about this being ammo for the antis. your dead wrong about people still shooting lions without tails, never ever have I seen a lifesize or a rug without a tail. I think you are way underestamating the ability of a lion to evolve and adapt to their tail being a little short. that lion in the vid had quite a bit of a tail left to work with. I don't personally dock tails, but hats off to the utah guys doing it because it's the only thing left they can do. deer and sheep hunters won't stop until their aint an 80 lb cub left to chase. as for the guys shooting tails to jump a lion, it is illegal in utah to jump a lion with a snowball, rock or anything for that matter. I don't know about other states laws on this. jumping a cat just makes them a pain in the ass to run the next time. they get to where they don't feel safe in a tree and then they either bay up and get killed after dishing you a hefty vet bill, or they tree long enough to catch their wind and then away they go till they get exhausted and die making for a long shitty day. sorry if any of this fuels the antis, but thats the way it is. I have watched the lions go down hill in this state for the last ten years! if nothing changes soon we won't have any left and we'll have to come down and horn in on your area.

[HoundDawg]

The talk of "Anti's" comes up a lot and we are pretty wary of them, for good reason. But around here, they aren't all total whacko's and many of them realize there will be harvest at some level, but they are hoping to keep it to a reasonable level.

The sad things is, these days if you go to the Wildlife meetings around here about lions and bears, the Anti's are actually more of Allies to the houndsmen than any of the hunters in the room. I go to those meetings and alot of what the Anti groups are saying is a helluva lost closer to how I feel about it, than anything the DWR or hunters are saying.

I personally sleep better at night knowing they are in the fight. Because we already know houndsmen cannot and will not police themselves. And if it's left up to the SFW, DWR and deer hunters around here, there won't be a lion or bear left for your kids to see in a tree. So when one of those Anti's shows up and says, "Stop killing all the lions you dumb*****!" He makes way more sense to me than any of those idiots sitting on a RAC board. Sad that's it come to that.

Oh by the way Utah boys... what they are doing to our lion hunting.... bears are next. Already getting ready to implement the famous "Quota Units" for bear. True story! Killing all the lions didn't fix the deer, so bears are next on the chopping block!

[Brady Davis]

I agree Hounddawg....I grew up there, and I can vouch that it is in a sorry state, and I don't know if it's repairable or not. DWR and their lion counts and #'s are so far off it's crazy. You can take mountain range after mountain range in UT as an example and they all fail the litmus test...The deer herds are still down and lions are damn near extinct. But....those cute little coyotes don't hurt dear?! It's those big evil lions ys know....Just ask SFW....They swear by it and they put their money where their mouth is.

I think thats about half the problem. The second half is all the "houndsmen" in UT who only cut 1 track a year (thanks DWR) and so when they finally get that sub adult female in a tree, they feel the need to hammer it, take pics and put their hounds back on a chain for another 11 1/2 months. One of my best buddies was out in Orem the other day, damn near a hundred degrees outside and some hound hunter has a few black and tans, up riding the rig rack dang near dead of heat....Those are your true enemy.

Hounddawg, you're spot on here...

[radar]

DANG.........so some of you lion hunters have some pin'd up lion tails on the barn like I have coon tails This is the most ruthless chit I think I've read on here.

What happends if they do adapt to it, then they start to evolve in to that over sized bob cat you guys are making.Shame on you, who ever doz that.........JMO

I wonder If bears used to have Long tails

[basko]

here is an idea. how bout everyone just enjoys the hunt instead of messin with the cats tail. when people do stupid idiotic crap like that, that is what gives houndsmen a bad name. just my 2 cents

[houndnem]

when your cats get exterminated like ours have you too will resort to drastic measures. like I said before this is not something I do, but I'm not gona be sad if other guys do.