The Actual Ancestry of the Dereinger and Shelly Dogs?

[liontracker]

I am looking for known, factual information on these two strains. Since I seriously doubt either one of these men will ever get on here, I was hoping someone that knows the actual facts would fill me in? What I was told, was that the Dereinger dogs are mostly Goswick and the Shelly dogs are Goswick/best of Ben Lilly dogs. Does anyone on here know the actual ancestry of these two strains?

[houndnhorse]

Well there's a debate for the ages. I think you'd have to talk to someone who was there, and decide whether they are reliable or not. Remember the fella that was asked about a while back who said the Lee's weren't near as good as him in his day. I don't think I'd ask that guy. Those old boys that actually knew are hard to find these days. Ask the Deiringers, Charlie Gould, Leon Cox, and maybe Pat Wantland. As for the Shelley's, I don't know who to ask but Terrell himself.

[Mike Leonard]

I agree with Mike call Pat Wantland he has a ton of history and spent a lot of time with George Goswick himself. As for Terrell ask Terrell and he dang sure will give you the straight scoop. LOL!

[liontracker]

Right on. Could you guys PM me some phone numbers please?

[ChasinTail]

I can tell you two answers you'd probably get from Sam Dieringer (yes, that's the correct way to spell his name...) if you ask him where his dogs came from, first he'd probably say he doesn't know, and second he'd tell you he doesn't care. Those dogs get the job done, and anyone that has had the pleasure of watching them in action, (other than the El Gato movies) will tell you nothing different! And anyone that has the pleasure of owning a Dieringer dog will tell you they don't care either!

Good luck!

[Mike Leonard]

BINGO!

[houndnhorse]

Like Pat will most likely tell ya. "When George Goswick says those are the lion catchingest dogs he's ever been around, you better cock an ear."

[Mr.pacojack]

Why not get a picture of them and get the closest dogs you can find that look like them and start breeding the hell out of them.Have Mike back you and sell pups you don't even have and tell everyone they will bring a new level of hounds to the hound world? you know like you did with the Bill Green dogs

[larry]

or even better yet, get some dogs that have very little to no relation to them and make a bold statement that you are bringing them back from the dead in your new crosses like Paco did with bozo!

[Mr.pacojack]

He still wouldn't get it right, he might have to actualy hunt them.

[Grzyadms4x4]

No offense Devin, liontracker or Larry, but I was somewhat interested in this thread. I understand and have read a few of your spats with Liontracker, but does every single thread in which he or you post have to get hijacked and turned into a pissin match? Is this the Biggamewhineybitchcomplaininghoundsman.com website? Again no offense but this is the second topic that I have been interested in that has gone this way and I would appreciate it if you guys could handle your problem either via PM or face to face. I would bet there are A LOT of members of this site that want to read the discussion of the subject of the thread than to see where it gets hijacked and then the discussion dies or goes into an 11 page rant.

Now back to The Actual Ancestry of the Dereinger and Shelly Dogs. Which is somewhat interesting and I hope that when Liontracker gets around to talking to some of these folks that can answer his questions, he posts some of the information that he finds.

[Conejos]

Thanks Grizly adams! I think you read everyones mind on that one!

[Arkansas Frog]

Paco Jack that wasn't nice

[liontracker]

+100 on the hijacking, I do my best to stay out of it.


As to the actual ancestry, I was pretty close in my original post. However this is what I recieved so far:

"Scott Dierenger, Charlie Gould and later Sam Dierenger dogs are in fact Goswick but mostly the George strain. The dogs that George Goswick ended up with were a bit different in type then his father Gile's orginal dogs. George added treeing walker to the strain to get away from the extreme cold trailing that gile's dog were noted for. He said he spent the bulk of his early life following Dad's dogs on three day old track and Giles would not go home till the lion was caught and he was sick of it. He either wanted to catch the lion in a day or go to the house."

I believe this to be true, as I found an old waybill from a railroad company that listed walkers and blueticks going to George from back east.

[pegleg]

that's true there is a great number of silent hounds men on this site that I can only assume are here to glean either information or hound related entertainment. the truly informative post are over shadowed by 10-20 page bs sessions. the real issue is what positive value these post have or don't. hell all that argueing would take two minutes in person. yet how many culmitative hours are spent by everyone else wading through it??
I'd rather spend that time hearing of your son or daughters first hunt, the first tree your pup made this year or the last hunt your father ever made with you. hounds are a intergal aspect of our sport as is the pride we have in OUR hounds. so the breeding of those hounds is of interest as well. there are as many methods of breeding as a person wishes to develop. I don't agree with all of them or disagree. however I don't have to hunt or own anything i disagree with. the Shelly and Dieringer families are part of the south west lion dogs and as such carry a good deal of interest to a good number of hunters in this region. most packs include one or more of these hounds and many are based on them or closely bred dogs.