Caliber of choice for bear kill season?

knowjesus · Post by **knowjesus** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:21 pm

Thanks for all the replies and opinions. After reading, researching and looking around, I think I'll save my hard earned $$$ and keep using my 7400 carbine in 30-06. Those 220 grainers should be plenty to do the job quickly.
I only hunt 3-4 days per yr as a guest of the hunting party, so I want to be real sure to put that bear down quickly.
Thanks Guys!

budmandan · Post by **budmandan** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:02 pm

I just picked up a Remington 7600 pump 30'06. I really like it alot. It is clip fed, fast handling, and reliable as the come. Just thought I would through it out there the 7400 is a nice rifle as well.

Good Luck, Dan

corbin · Post by **corbin** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:17 am

hey budmandan that is the same gun i use. i dont know about yours but mine busts my face bone every time i shoot it. the sites are just 2 low or somthing but after all it is just my bear gun. i SHOULD only have to shoot it twice a year anyways. once to see if its lined up and once to kill a bear. but i do really like that gun.

treeing walkers · Post by **treeing walkers** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:27 pm

30/30 170 grain bullet. Plenty good enough to kill a bear fast. You need to soot it right be on and take your time. If you shoot in the head that bear will hit the dirt quick. It is all about shot placement.

Bearkiller · Post by **Bearkiller** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:05 am

treeing walkers wrote:30/30 170 grain bullet. Plenty good enough to kill a bear fast. You need to soot it right be on and take your time. If you shoot in the head that bear will hit the dirt quick. It is all about shot placement.

Agreed

corbin · Post by **corbin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:29 pm

which anybody can have good shot placement if the bear is treed. but busting through a larel thicket with only 3-4 seconds to shoot while it is escaping dogs. not that we would shoot at ones ass end but if we see the side of the bear were just goin to shoot anywhere in the shoulder. i could never have anouph time to take a good shot on 1 with a 30-30 unless it was treed. BUT THATS JUST MY OPINION. that is why most us use a bigger gun. but it might not be like these appalachian mountain thickets everywhere else. if bear romed the plains out west and we doged them. im sure alot of people especially youngsters would use a 243. because u would have all day to take your time and make a shot. it really is just personal preferance as to what gun you use. im sure if you wanted to you could take a 22 with a scope and put a bullet right in its eyeball and kill the bear. i just feel more confortable with my gun and that is why i use it. and i know there is other feelers who feel the same about there gun. the best thing to do is just use what you got. cause any high powerd rifle is goin to kill a black bear.

broncobilly · Post by **broncobilly** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:46 am

Personally, I don't believe in subsituting higher power for accuracy, but I do believe that a 30-30 is a practical minimum for a rifle and a 44 mag is minimum for a handgun. If you use a handgun, take the extra time to learn to use it well and it will work just fine I own and use a 30-30, a 44 rem mag handgun, and a 35 rem. I have taken hundreds of hogs, and more than a few bears with them, and I have never had a dog injured after I pulled the trigger on any of them.

I agree with treeing walkers:

"30/30 170 grain bullet. Plenty good enough to kill a bear fast. You need to soot it right be on and take your time. If you shoot in the head that bear will hit the dirt quick. It is all about shot placement."(emphasis added)

Using a 30-30 as a minimum, any fast handling rifle that you can shoot well enough will do the job for you.

BTW, when you are in a thicket with a bayed up bear, and your adrenaline is pumping a little bit, 4 seconds is an eternity. I suspect that everybody on here, if they actually timed it, and realized how long it was, could put at least one shot, and probably 2, into a target the size of a bears head at 20 to 30 yards. If I couldn't, I believe that I'd put in some practice time before I went back to the woods.

JMO

Bill

mountainmanmike · Post by **mountainmanmike** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:57 pm

Well for what my opinion is worth.. A 30-30 is certainly not a bear gun and a 30-06 is bare nuts minimum in my opinion anyway .
A gun in 338 win mag is more like what I call a bear gun .
A 30-30 is a deer gun :; a 30-06 will kill a moose but when you are dealing with a bear ... and over dogs to boot .... Then you bring out a gun that is intended to stop game . I FIRMLY believe A man should carry ALL the gun he is capable of shooting when dealing with bears,
When bad turns into ugly the bear is not going to let you go home and change guns

broncobilly · Post by **broncobilly** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:57 pm

mountainmanmike wrote: I FIRMLY believe A man should carry ALL the gun he is capable of shooting when dealing with bears,

All the gun a person is capable of shooting can be quite a point of contention. According to a study I read a few years ago, I think it was in Outdoor life but I am not sure, not more than 1 shooter in 10 can handle the recoil of a 338 win mag well enough to actually shoot it well. My experience as a guide bears that out. I can't tell how many times a hunter has shown up with more gun than they could shoot. Well, OK, they could raise the gun to their shoulder and pull the trigger and get the thing to go off, but their flinch was horrible and they couldn't hit the broad side of the barn. Since there are about 250 of us on this site, I guess that means that 25 of us should be carrying a 338 win mag and the rest of us will have to make do with something less.

Actually, I have no problem with the "all the gun you can shoot accurately", as long as the shooter is honest enough with himself to admit it when when he has reached his limit. Not many people are.

JMO

Bill

mountainmanmike · Post by **mountainmanmike** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:16 pm

That is my point .... ALL the gun you can shoot .
A few years back I seen a bear shot with a 30-06 . Text book shot but it did not kill the bear as fast as buddy thought it SHOULD and when he went over the hill to find it ; the bear was standing there looking at him . He shot it again at about thirty yards and it CAME to him . It was shot again when it almost touched the barrel . Three 30-06 in the front quarter and it AMOST turned ugly.
Last year I shot one with the 300 win mag and it still did not drop in the tracks :: But did stop about twenty feet from where I shot it . When I am following the dogs I have the 338 with me .I do agree it is alot of gun .... but there is only one degree of dead .
The next thing to think about is the size of bears you are playing with . If the average bear is a couple hundred pounds .... then a deer caliber may be all you need ....If you have big bears then more gun is in order . The biggest bear to date I have took is 652 pounds . I know where there is one close to seven so I believe I owe it to my dogs if NOTHING else to have enough gun to stop the bear from hurting them when I shoot it .
I believe a 338 will remove the whole head if the oppurtunity shows itself.
I seen one shot with a 444 last year ,, About a 200 pounder ; and the whole head was MUSH . That is what you want .That bear was dead before it left the tree .
A very good friend from New Hampshire had two dogs hurt bad because
One the guy shooting did not wait till the dogs were tied back and two did not make a good shot . I believe a GOOD shot is very important .... BUT a 338 will kill a bear if you shoot him in the FOOT .... Just funning but they are a wicked rifle

broncobilly · Post by **broncobilly** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:53 am

mountainmanmike wrote:That is my point .... ALL the gun you can shoot .
.... BUT a 338 will kill a bear if you shoot him in the FOOT .... Just funning but they are a wicked rifle

If you are going to make that first statement, please put an "accurately" at the end of it, and please emphasize the "shoot accurately" instead of the "ALL the gun" part.

I had a client shoot a hog one time with a .375, the only reason that man is alive today is because I was backing him up with a .44 handgun. A 338 may be a wicked rifle, but a 30-30 or .44 handgun in the hands of someone that knows the importance of shot placement and can put his bullets where he wants them will make more one shot kills than a 338 will in the hands of someone who thinks that foot pounds of energy will make up for poor bullet placement.

As for the second part of your post that I quoted, you know that you were joking and I know that you were joking, but I've had so many clients show up with that attitude that I can no longer see any humor in that statement. I hope it never happens that someone who doesn't realize that you were joking hears you make that statement, believes it, and gets himself or someone else(like his guide) killed because of it.

Bill

mountainmanmike · Post by **mountainmanmike** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:03 pm

Bill you are most certainly correct about accurately>> But as a guild I am sure you have met the guys that BELIEVE they can shoot 500 yards with a 30-06 and still have enough energy to kill a moose or bear . They may cause it to die , Just not today or tomorrow .
The bear I said I shot with a 300 was about 250 pounds and 150 yards away.
When I shot the bear though the front shoulder the guts came out the bottom. I really do not care who believes me ; but the bear went about twenty feet ; over a rail fence and was not dead when I walked up to it . It still alot of life in it for sure .
If you had shot a moose like that it would have been dead .
A 300 win mag is alot of gun but bears are tough .
I believe you COULD kill the biggest bear with a 223 . But that does not make it a bear gun .
I have seen too many people that believe ANY high power rifle is enough for bear hunting . 90% of bears will die without incident . The other 10 will make you wish you had a bigger gun .
Over dogs I believe yuo OWE it to your dogs to have a bear STOPPING gun not a bear killing gun , BIG BIG difference .
The 338 is all I can shot effective and when I tryied the 340 wetherby I found it to be too much . So I believe I carry all the gun I can handle .
If moose hunting I use the 300 win because it has a bit better LEGS but if bear hunting I use the 338.
We have alot of small bears here too but we have some over 600 and I have seen more than a few over 500 for sure .
I have seen people not want to use the nice new wetherby and get it banged up so they use a lesser caliber . I also believe they may see the day they WISH they had a big ass rifle instead .
I have a saying :: If you do not OWN a bear gun :: BORROW one . It may save your life

Bearkiller · Post by **Bearkiller** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:35 am

I notice that ya'll are talking about the shooter more than anything. I have seen more bears killed with a 30-30 than all other calibers combined. I have found in my experience that most people who carry bigger guns are NOT comfortable with their shooting skills so they think they need more gun. You whack a 150 pound bear with a .338 and you are very likey to get pass through. Just as deadly as a wounded bear. I guess from an outfitters perspective more gun is better since you don't know the shooters skills. From a bear hunters perspective, shot placement is the key and a 30-30 is PLENTY of gun.

mountainmanmike · Post by **mountainmanmike** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:22 pm

Shot placement is VERY important for sure . And just for the record I am VERY comfortable in my shoot abilities . I grew up in a car scrap yard and can shoot a key lock at 100 yards . I have a 308 heavy barrel rifle and shoot groundhogs at 400 plus . I have shot deer with it at close to 600. ONE shot and the deer fell down ... I would not EVEN think about trying a bear at that range . It would be like a BEE STING on a bear
But when shooting bears :: I leave the deer and groundhog guns at home .
A couple of years ago when we were moose hunting a fellow hunter had a large bear come right out to him ; about 30 yards away . He had a 30-06 and shot it though the front shoulder . It spun and ran off like it was not even hit . Went about fifty yards over a hill before it layed down . I am the one who did the cleaning of the bear . The bear was hit REAL good and if it had been a moose or deer would have dropped in the tracks,, The bear field dressed just over 500 pounds .Thirty yards away and the bullet did not come out the other side . Alot of fat on a fall bear .... and a very big bear . HAD the bear came to him instead of going the other way ; he would have been dead before he knew it . A 30-06 will kill a bear for sure . Will it stop a bear ::: I do not believe it is a stopping gun .
But in this case a 30-06 is all the gun buddy can shoot . So I quess he has to use the best he has .
I have heard of bears being shot with a 22 mag and the bear died . Head shot or hit something vital

??
And you or correct saying the 30-30 has killed alot of game;;;;; MAYBE more than all other calibers combined . BUT to take a 30-30 when you have or have access to better is a big mistake is my opinion .
A 30-30 will kill . A bear gun will stop .
I believe a 30-30 will kill a grizz too but not many people would chose one if they had better. You may hunt bear all your life and NEVER need anymore . But why carry a gun that is intended to stop deer when you dealing with a animal that can take you life as quick as yuo can take theirs .

Pops · Post by **Pops** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:42 pm

i thought the danger was the reason it was a sport. oh well, guess i better leave the spear at home.