what is an old cat?

[shoot4fur]

what is an old lion? I know bears get quite old, but was wondering at what age is a cat old, and at what age is the cat mature? I just found out the cat I got last year was 6 1/2, and was wondering if that is a mature cat? I like to learn as much as I can About the animal Hunt, that being the reason for the post. Also do any of you pack a digital scale, and if so what is the average wait of the cats in your neck of the woods.

[snakerivercatman]

If your lion was aged at 6 1/2 then I'd say that you did a bang up job of taking a very mature lion. Typically what I refer to as a mature lion is a lion that has been on his own for a year or so. They are sexually mature usually before their mother kicks them off, but any houndsman worth his salt will tell you that a 3 year old is just a sub-adult. A 6 1/2 year old male has been around the block more than a time or two and stands a very good chance at being a territory holding tom. Some toms can top the scales at over 150 at 3 years old, however I think many houndsman will agree with me when I say that it's not always the weight that matters. Weight fluctuates with density of meat in their bellies anyway. AGE is what does it for me personally. Softball sized jowels, grey faces and tattered ears is what I look for! I don't carry a scale in my pack (I'm too fat and old to be carrying any extra weight!)

[houndnem]

in utah an old cat is one that has lost his spots without being harvested no on a more seriouse note, a 6.5 year old cat is not old, nor young. just right in their prime and full size. I have killed lions that were 12 -13 and at that age they hardly have teeth left therefore they don't eat like they did at 6. all of the lions I have harvested that made book were between 5 and 7 years old. I'm no expert in this feild, but this is my general observation in my experiance.

[shoot4fur]

Hey thanks for the imput, i enjoy hearing other peoples observations, and taking what knowledge i can from it. I feel every bit I can learn makes me a better hunter. I will never know enough.

[larry]

alot of guys will tell you the fwp tooth age cert that you get back is inacurate. I doubt the bridgers have a tom that old in em, the locals do a pretty good job of seein to that. 130 lb cat in the bridgers is a big one for there, and the typical tom that gets killed there is 130 or less, usually less.

[shoot4fur]

Larry, thanks I guess for your input, but I think their ageing is ok, at least with bears. I have shot a lot of bears, and they seem to age them at what i would guess. so if they are as close on cats I do not doubt them. I am also sure my cat weighed more than 130lbs, I lift a lot of weights, and work hard for a living and he was more than 130. It seems you are kind of a negative nancy but i guesss you can post what ever you want, what ever makes you happy. I am not saying my cat was at all huge, though he seemed nice to me, but it just seems as if you dont like to see a guy happy. My buddy treed a cat that whent 173 on fwps scale last year, thats a nice cat around here, but their scare was probably off

[Longspring]

My 2010 cat was an old female at 13 according to F&G . Said it was the oldest they have seen in a while . Pretty good shape for her age .

[shoot4fur]

that is cool, love the old age worn down teeth. nice

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Tooth aging is not accurate,some states and provinces have quit tooth aging as they realize there is to many variables in a cougars diet to have accurate aging. The condition of the all the teeth, and the way the face looks gives you a good idea on age grouping. Most Biologist will group from ages 4 to 6, 7 to 9 and 10 and over. That is about as close as the get.
I try and wiegh all my toms clients take if the drag isn't to bad. Last year the smallest was 154#, 168, 184 and largest never was wieghed as the scale fell and broke as we tried to weigh him. The 168# was interesting as he had no fat and a completely empty belly who know what he would have weighed if he was in better shape.

[Plotts]

The Idaho Mountain Lion Plan uses three age groups; 0-3, 4-7, and 7+.

Is 6 1/2 years old an old cat? Well close but not by this scale; then again, you have to keep things in perspective. For example, in our area the median age of harvested cats is in the 0-3 class, with very few getting into the 4-7 class. What I'm saying is that 6 1/2 year old cats are extremely rare in Southeast Idaho, so you got a good one. He must have lived someplace where there was not much hunting pressure for most of his life.

Back in the early 90's we helped the F&G collar 19 lions. The females averaged 80 lbs. with the largest being 90 lbs.
The males averaged 120 with the largest at 154. That was an actual scaled weight.

There was a day when you had a chance of finding a cat in the 7+ age group, but those days are in the past, and I don't see them coming back.

[raxntrax]

I feel that 5 to 7 years is in the prime of their lives. Any tom that is older than that seems to have more fresh scars on their backs and flanks than of their head and neck suggesting they are using retreat and distance as a defense method. As for the scale. If more lions were weighed on a certified scale there would be A LOT LESS 150 plus pound toms killed with out a doubt.

[houndnem]

. If more lions were weighed on a certified scale there would be A LOT LESS 150 plus pound toms killed with out a doubt.

that's so true!

[couleeking]

Shoot4fur, I was just wondering, did the state pull the tooth out of your cat and send it to the lab? I have never turned a lion into the state so I don't know the procedure (the only lion I have killed was on a reservation), but I guess I was under the impression that the state fwp quite aging lions by sending their teeth to a lab to count the lines or whatever because of the inaccuracy. I do know that other animals, bear and deer for one, tooth aging is very accurate but cats are quite different. I know there is a set of guidlines for aging out there that is used by observing the gumline and where it is located ridge of the tooth that is probably as accurate as any method. Maybe thats how your cat was aged?

As far as age goes, I'm gonna talk out my ass here but it seems to me I have heard once a cougar that had been kept in captivity lived to the ripe old age of 16, wich was considered to be ancient to those who knew for sure. And what I understand about a cat that is living in the wild if they make it to 10 they have lived the good life.

I would have to agree, a 6 1/2 y/o tom would be a keeper for the most part. At that age, he should of been showing you his coffee stained smile and at that point how much he weighed shouldn't have even be a question........................bang!

[shoot4fur]

I have been told a lot that a guy got a 165Lb cat, and too often to be true, It seems that every one around here shoots a 160lb plus cat. I know that can not be true. That is the reason I am going to get a packable scale. I like to know things like that. Its not that a big scull makes the books, i just like to know for a fact what it scored to picture that cat, or the score on a set of horns so i can picture that rack ect. I have never entered anything in any book, not that i think its wrong, but i do score every animal i shoot, or that I am around.

[Plotts]

When people tell me how much something weighed, I always ask them "how did they weigh it?"

The answer usually comes back that it was an estimate..........hmmm