how old of a track can a good dog trail

[luckylqh]

I have been told by a few guys that their good liondogs can trail a three day old lion track, then why aftr someone sees a lion the night before does the same dog they are talking about have trouble trailing a night old lion track, and besides that unless a lion makes a kill he would travel 30 or 40 miles in 3 days therefore you would never get close enough to catch him in one day. what do any of you guys think,give me some ideas

[liontracker]

Why? That is the question of the ages and one that we most likely will never know the answer to, unless someone invents a machine that can detect scent like a hound can, so we can use it to double check the hound. Twice now in the last 10 years I have had a visual on 2 different cats at less than 50 yards and the hounds could not move either of them. On the one, just 2 hours later, the same dogs ran a 2-3 day old track like it was only minutes old and treed it. On the other. I just scratched my head and went home.

On your other point, not all 3 day old tracks cover that much ground. Some just go 2-3 miles and make a kill and lay up for a few days. Those are the ones you can catch, the others you just trail...and Hope.

[clb]

..

[houndnem]

That is very nicely put liontracker and clb. I also have treed on the melted out remains of a track that we found two days prior and I've had my butt kicked by a night old track. I don't think there are many people runnin 3 day old dirt tracks though. I know I couldn't, but mother nature has her ways of making scent dissapear quick or linger for days. that's why I chalk most of it up to luck when I do it. also I have seen a fresh tom that was on a mission after cleaning up a kill that we ran for two days, never left his track but never caught him either. I have seen an old track where the lion hasn't left that canyon yet. It's all about being on the short end of it fresh or old.

[chancemarquette]

well if you have the same hounds that the dry ground elite chosen few have you could trail a good 25 day old track!!!

[lifreediver]

the guy who told me this story does not sell pups and has nothin to gain by this story he was guideing in the snow montana they wer drivin around lookin for fresh tracks monday they found a track they figured it to be a few days old .on thursday they stopped there again to see if there were any new tracks well his lead dog always rides in the cab she jumped out walked over and opened like it was a hot trail.they laughed and he said atleast they knew enough not to let her run it
hes guideing in maine for black bear and the dogs get on about 50 bears a year then he would go to montana to guide sure that helped plus he says lion track holds longer than bear
i think big game huntin is more about knowing which track to run and which not to run. i dont want to try and run a bear track more than 12 hours old i think 6hours is even better i think if i ran lion it would be the same
seems like you are better off spendin 3 or four days lookin for the right track to run than tryin to run a cold track
you only have sun up to sun down to catch the cat
i would rather have a few people scoutin or scout hard than a cold trail or cold trailin dog as you know shit happens on a jumped animal li freediver

[pegleg]

the real advantage to colder nosed hounds is their tenacity on track. I can't stand a hound that will open and trail a little then run into a loss and mill around a little then give up. the other advantage for horseback or foot hunters is cold trails give you a better look at the typical lion behavior and patterns in your area. this understanding helps get on those tracks and locate the better toms.

[plottpappaw]

whats is the possibility of two lions using being in the same area and travelling the same area and just so happen your three day old track is only ten minutes? to me that makes more since.

[dwalton]

If you have true dry ground lion dogs it is all in the conditions. I have seen good dogs not be able to work a track a few hours old and I have caught lions on tracks that were four days old that I walked up because the lion had not came out of the area. I walked up the track to a kill and caught it. I have had the dogs open on a track that I know was 9 days old on bare ground but could not move it much. It's all up to the conditions, the dogs and the ability of the hunter. Dewey

[Lil Joes BigGame hounds]

i think big game huntin is more about knowing which track to run and which not to run. i dont want to try and run a bear track more than 12 hours old i think 6hours is even better i think if i ran lion it would be the same
seems like you are better off spendin 3 or four days lookin for the right track to run than tryin to run a cold track
you only have sun up to sun down to catch the cat
i would rather have a few people scoutin or scout hard than a cold trail or cold trailin dog as you know shit happens on a jumped animal li freediver[/quote]


This is an alright logic. But if you do turn out on those cold tracks and trail and trail and trail and never catch that lion atleast your dogs have been out there trailin and working hard. That way when you do hit that hot track your dogs will really smoke it with out makin as many looses. Because they will want to move the track but will not be too fresh, and they will have all the lock down as if they were on a cold track. If I do not have a hunter its almost impossible for me to pass a lion track with out givin it a good try. It makes your dogs better and teaches you something about your dogs.
One day will come when you cant find a fresh track and you have no choice but to turn out on that 2-3 day old track. And its just nice to know what kinda medicine you are haulin in that dog box!

[liontracker]

If you have true dry ground lion dogs it is all in the conditions. I have seen good dogs not be able to work a track a few hours old and I have caught lions on tracks that were four days old that I walked up because the lion had not came out of the area. I walked up the track to a kill and caught it. I have had the dogs open on a track that I know was 9 days old on bare ground but could not move it much. It's all up to the conditions, the dogs and the ability of the hunter. Dewey

Well, it looks I am not the only one from the nut house!LOL (sorry, I couldn't resist)

I often have to wonder about the old writings from the Lee Bro.'s and Bill Green, in which they stated that their dogs were catching on 5-6 day old dryground tracks in AZ and UT. Nowadays it seems like the max is 3-4 days. Two days is a huge difference on a dirt track, 50%-67%. Either they were imbelishing the truth, which I doubt, or most of our current hounds have lost some nose, which I suspect.

Anyway, 9 days old on bare ground ... yep, that's a cold nose for sure.
Thanks for posting that Dewey.

[Trueblue]

I posted these quotes on another thread awhile back but I am going to post them again in response to liontrackers post.

" I KNOW scent will hold much longer and can be followed more steadily without gaps,if the weather and ground surface are uniformly dry than if there has been recent moisture.This applies at elevations from six to ten thousand feet and in the climate of the arid Southwest.Some hunters seem to think moisture is an aid to trailing,but my experience has been that just the opposite is true." Dub Evans.

"As we rode down Indian Creek we saw a fresh looking track of a good sized black bear.Tracking conditions were good in the dry,soft dirt, and we followed the track down Indian Creek for several miles to a point where the bear climbed out of the canyon bottom,turning off at right angles.We discovered later that the bear was following the scent from a pile of cat and coyote carcasses which had been piled in a header by Scotty,from his winter's trapping.On our return trip to Horse Camp four days later,we brought the hounds along,making the same detour by upper Indian Creek.As soon as the hounds reached the canyon they opened upon a trail and took off down the canyon at a fast gait.We rode after them,checking for bear tracks,but there was nothing but the track we had seen on our earlier trip.We followed at a lope because we were eager to see what would happen when the hounds reached the spot where the bear had turned to go to the cat and coyote carcasses.The trail was good enough for the hounds to pick up easily by circling if they ran past the place where the bear made the turn.They followed the trail right to the pile of carcasses and we called them off,as the bear was probably well into the Mogollans or the West Fork of the Gila by that time." Dub Evans

"Ever since we started hunting we have given a great deal of thought to scent, trailing conditions, a subject that has never been mastered by any hunter, in our opinion: so like you, we have to base our judgment upon our own experiences.
Yes, we have seen a pack of hounds fail to handle a lion trail which should have been fresh, or hot; and one of these packs trailed a lion, and did a good job of it, which I had killed seven days before with another pack of hounds; and I know it was this trail the hounds were following because they trailed her from where the other pack of hounds had jumped her. She had jumped from a number of trees before finally being killed, and this last pack of hounds trailed her to each tree until they reached the last one." Ernest Lee.

I personally don't believe that our hounds have lost a whole lot in the nose department but I think if you spend enough time in the woods you are going to encounter situations that make your dogs look like culls and experience other situations that make your dogs look like super hero's.Like Ernest Lee indicated,scent and trailing conditions is a perplexing subject which no man has mastered.Stories like these from these legends of hound hunting give some people the impression that their dogs were trailing super old tracks like this all the time but I don't think that was really the case and that is why some of these stories stand out in their minds.....because they were exceptions to the rule.

[liontracker]

Stories like that are indeed exceptions to the rule, and so are the hounds that can complete a track like that. It is good to know that it is still being done once in a while. Thanks for the memory refresh.

[Trueblue]

Stories like that are indeed exceptions to the rule, and so are the hounds that can complete a track like that. It is good to know that it is still being done once in a while. Thanks for the memory refresh.

I think you missed the point.If you read that carefully Dub states that the dogs moved that bear track out on a fast gait and that the dogs could pick up the trail easily.I don't think that Dub was telling this story to brag about how good his dogs noses were but rather to show how sometimes trailing and scent conditions can be excellent,even after 4 days or longer.I think what he was saying is sometimes hounds can't run a smokin hot one and sometimes they can run a week old track but neither one of those facts is a statement about the hounds nose....it is about tracking conditions.Sometimes all the elements line up just right and make it possible for a hound to run some old tracks.

[liontracker]

Yep, I see what you mean there.