Feeding your hounds AFTER a hunt?????

[Brent Sinclair]

I just got a call from a guy in Nevada that I sold one of my black & tan hounds to last May.
He has been exercising him with other hounds in his pack 3-4 times a week and they are in real good hunting condition...
He found a lion yesterday and took this hound with 2 others and caught the tom, took the hounds back to the kennel and about 2 - 2 1/2 hrs later fed them, this morning the hound was looking real sick and weak so they took him to the vet and a couple hrs later he died....
He was real active all summer and even when he fed and watered him after the hunt...Vet told the fella he had a full stomach of undigested food and that the lining of his stomach was split???
Never heard of that before..
I've run hounds for over 30 yrs and never feed before I hunt but always give them a good amount after I kennel them up for the night....
I have lost a couple to a twisted stomach or gut but not feed related....
Tough deal , the fella paid alot for the hound and only got to run 1 lion with him... he was only 5yrs old ...
Vet figured he fed the hound to much?
Anyone ever had this happen?

[007pennpal]

I've never heard of it before. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you could have known beforehand then I'd say soke food in water or water dog before feeding. That way dry food wouldn't expand in stomach. Was the dog an eat all you give him right away type? So he basically was both overfed and ate himself to death?
Sean

[houndnem]

I had one of my best dogs die a couple years back the same way. I never could figure out what happend but now what you just said makes alot of sense. I hunted him probably the hardest I have ever ran a hound and then brought him home and threw a bunch of food out. the next morning he was dead. Dog food does swell when it gets wet. great, one more thing to worry about.

[bearsnva]

From what I have read it is best to not feed them for at least an hour before or after vigorous exercise. There have been a lot of dogs lost from twisted stomachs that were fine before they ate and laid down. After a hard run watch their water intake also, don't let them just gorge themselves on the water. That can be as bad as the food.

[Powder River Walker]

I don't know alot about it but any thing you read about athlets it says after a good hard work out to eat a small portion of protein and carbs. After running my dogs (hunting or exercising) I feed them little meat and rice then dog food the next day. that way they don't get plum full on dry food but yet get the nutrients they need.
PRW

[ferjr]

I am glad I read this thread. I usually feed my dogs as soon as i get home from hunting. I wont be doing that anymore, thanks for all the input on this.

[FullCryHounds]

The worst thing you can do is NOT feed your dogs before your hunt. Yes, you don't want to feed them and run them right away but if it's going to be an hour before you turn them out, then by all means get some protein and carbs into them before you take them out all day. Do you think the dogs running the Iditarod can go without food before they run all day!? Thats rediculous to think that and another one of the old timers myths.
As far as feeding them after a hunt. It is best to wait at least an hour and a half after a tough hunt before feeding anything. Then you should limit the amount of dry food. You can water them as much as they want but if you are only feeding dry food, which you shouldn't be, this is the reason you may have a problem with a twisted stomach. Even if they drink a lot before eating, the dry food will obsorb the water in the stomach and they can still twist a gut. Please try and feed your dogs as much meat as you can get in them. They are not vegetarians, or even omnivorous, they are 100% meat eaters. Feed them more meat and a lot of your health problems will go away. Meat is free if you just look around a bit. Road kill is easy, free and available everywhere. Ask you hunting buddies to save all of thier meat when they clean out thier freezers from the year before. You'll be amazed how much meat you can pack away in a short time. Your dogs will be much healthier, thier feet will be tougher and you will save a ton from vet bills. I haven't had a sick dog in 12 years since I started feeding more meat then dry food.

[Mike Leonard]

Brent,

Bad deal but you just never know.

Somthing to remember hunters out there and this is extreemly important. Hydration is critical to working athletes even in colder weather. Don't think just becasue you see the dogs eating some snow they are getting proper hydration. Many times when a guy loads up in cold weather and heads out to hunt the dogs water bowls have froze up during the night or the dog has not cared to get out in the cold to get a good drink. You get up and start the truck and he knows you are going hunting and the last thing on his mind is water. Well you ride around for several hours and it gets warm in the box and then he gets put down on a track and away he goes really putting out the excercize. When that track heats up or he gets bayed or treed he isn't thinking about stopping at that little creek for a drink. Well when the hunt is over and he is led back to the box loaed and goes home he is very dehydrated. He may take on a little water then but it may be ice cold and he doesn't take much, and then a big bowl of dog food is set in there and he eats a big gob of it and then goes to sleep on it. Well that dog meal does mix with stomach juices and swells but just like taking a big old gulp of white bread or dried chicken breast with out enough hydration in your gizzard it is hard to move around, it can prove fatal.

I carry a large pail of warm water out to the dog barn in the morning and I feed the dogs a very light high protien snack of meat(just a little) and let them take on some water before we load. I then carry plastic water cans and bowls to water them in the field. I will put these water cans on the back floorboards of the Duramax when it is freezing cold. I make sure I stop and let the dogs clean out and offer them a little water when I do, before ever getting them out on a track or getting them out to go on a big circle with the horses. I carry water on the horses and Filson Tin Cloth collapsable water bowls in my saddle bags for watering. When I get finsihed with a track or a tree or just a good run I water them again before loading up for home.

Sounds like a lot of work but it will pay big dividends and you will have better fit healthier hunting dogs.


Just think about the type of exercise you are asking your dogs to do and then think of something similar in human terms and ask yourself what would I need to stay healthy and at my best under such a demand.

[Ankle Express]

Brent, that is a twisted gut in my opinion. Not all twists are the same but the result usually is. The stomach lining dies during a twist due to lack of mainly oxygen and blood. This can take anywhere from an hour to several hours for the stomach lining to die off. Hence the reason some dogs are diagnosed and possibly even saved. A severe one will only take a couple hours tops. In the mean time gasses are building from the feed or water or both that the stomach is trying to digest. Once the stomach lining gets to a point it loses its expandability and actually may begin to dissolve but at that point and along with the gas pressure, the stomach will rupture between the twists. Its over at that point. The gasses will release, the contents of the stomach are released. Visually if you didn't see your dog bloated (the term for the swelling after the twist and gasses are building) and found them dead you really wouldn't see anything out of sorts much. An autopsy would then reveal the twist. Lots of dogs die from this. Way more than get the credit for it. Typically they are just found dead.

Knowing the breed of dog B&T and their typical build they are highly succeptible. Deep chest and long bodies. The thought is there has to be enough room for the gut to twist. Typically on these first day out type of deals in the big dogs the blood vessels that supply blood and oxygen to the stomach are already strained. They stretch from the bouncing around. Stomach isn't tight to the spine like an in shape hunted dog would be. We have all seen this, example- just a little water or feed in an out of shape dog and they look somewhat pot bellied or sway backed. Their stomach is dropping low. So what happened was the stomach wasn't digesting at full speed like normal because the area around the strained blood vessels isn't working at full capacity. Digestion is slowed or put on hold there. The gasses begin to build at that point. It swells the stomach. Its believed the gases will then flip the stomach and completely sever the blood vessels feeding it causing it to die off. We all have gutted critters. Once you get by the diaphram in anything you can basically pull the stomach free from the spine. That little bit of stuff connecting the stomach cavity to the spine is the blood vessels that supply the blood and oxygen to that stomach. Its not much. Unfortunately roading is not complete conditioning. Over rocks, boulders, logs and under much of the same is more of the real deal. Treeing takes a lot from a dog. Just the barking for an extended period will spend a lot. As well as help strain those blood vessels feeding the stomach. We’ve all seen sore dogs from treeing, right? Hunting in other words is the only complete conditioning. Sometimes the dog is truly spent and the thought is electolytes are spent as well. Thus causing the same slowed digestion and same process. Usually the gas has to be present and enough room to let it all roll over. Always exceptions to the rules as well. I’ve buried some great dogs over this. When in doubt withhold feed and give very little water. Let the dog completely recover. Then bring them back slow. Some believe its just the dog and will eventually happen. IDK. Its real and it happens though. Real sorry for the guys loss.

[Ankle Express]

Mike posted while I was typing. Hydration is what I meant with the electrolyte statement. Just don't try to make up for all the loss at once. Small amounts of water frequently till they urinate or prove their body is back to operating at full capacity. We need something similar to giving athletes an IV at halftime or after the game. Something like gatorade to replenish electrolytes quick in small doses. The equivalent in water at one dose would be just as dangerous as the feed until they are recovering. Hope this makes some sense (my writing).

[Doogie]

dang AE sounds like you have the wrong day job, got that night job finished up yet?

[Trueblue]

Please try and feed your dogs as much meat as you can get in them. They are not vegetarians, or even omnivorous, they are 100% meat eaters. Feed them more meat and a lot of your health problems will go away. .

I got to disagree with this statement as I think it is 100% false.I also believe that the majority of canine health problems are caused by genetic rather than dietary factors.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne ... res_3f.htm

[BlacktailStalker]

Ankle express that was a good write up on what really goes on behind the whole twisted gut. I'm glad I read it.
I've heard of it and recently had a friend losing an amazing hound to this.

[cat and bear]

You guys have given some great wisdom and advice on the subject. I agree with most everything, and understand it much better myself. Mikes post resembles the way I do things also. My vet said a long time ago, the main reason for kidney failure is not enough water, especially when you get the dogs back to the truck, he really cautioned me about it. The other thing, I didnt realize which may lead to the stomach twisting issue, During the winter hunting months. I mix a powder electrolyte ( for calf's) in the water after a hard hunt. Let them settle down, then mix some with their soaked food. If I'm hunting them consecutive days, I will give them a pound of meat, and some soaked dog food, which brings back the electrolytes,and protein. And if its down around zero at night, I will leave the hunted dogs together in my dog box in the truck,to keep them warm and recover the energy, without fighting the cold also.

[Brent Sinclair]

The worst thing you can do is NOT feed your dogs before your hunt. Yes, you don't want to feed them and run them right away but if it's going to be an hour before you turn them out, then by all means get some protein and carbs into them before you take them out all day. Do you think the dogs running the Iditarod can go without food before they run all day!? Thats rediculous to think that and another one of the old timers myths.
As far as feeding them after a hunt. It is best to wait at least an hour and a half after a tough hunt before feeding anything. Then you should limit the amount of dry food. You can water them as much as they want but if you are only feeding dry food, which you shouldn't be, this is the reason you may have a problem with a twisted stomach. Even if they drink a lot before eating, the dry food will obsorb the water in the stomach and they can still twist a gut. Please try and feed your dogs as much meat as you can get in them. They are not vegetarians, or even omnivorous, they are 100% meat eaters. Feed them more meat and a lot of your health problems will go away. Meat is free if you just look around a bit. Road kill is easy, free and available everywhere. Ask you hunting buddies to save all of thier meat when they clean out thier freezers from the year before. You'll be amazed how much meat you can pack away in a short time. Your dogs will be much healthier, thier feet will be tougher and you will save a ton from vet bills. I haven't had a sick dog in 12 years since I started feeding more meat then dry food.

Dean
Great bit of info and for sure worth remembering.
Well said, hounds need energy... and to hunt hard they need to be fed, it's just when and how much that needs to be known....
I should clarify what I ment to say, when I said I never feed before I hunt ,I never give them alot at one time, I carry some old burger meat mixed with alot of different things, ( One time I was so damd hungry I was thinkin of startin a fire and cookin some up just to keep me goin it smelled and looked so good!!!! ) My wife make patties with ground meat ,wheat germ, molasas oil, beef fat, gelitine and other things that I carry and throw to them during the day if they are riding in the box or just before I load up I'll toss each hound 1 or 2.
I feed a mixture of both at night when I'm hunting and make sure they have water.
I am sure the hound had a twisted gut, the fella did everything most guys do when running hounds, he's had hounds for over 10 yrs , as Mike said you never know.