Please Read!

[bigfootexp]

I didn't have time to read all the post so maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me ODFW is not making us on offer. It is not a choice we have to make , either the nesting bird ticket or a harrassment ticket. It has always been illigal to chase protected wildlife outside of a pursuit or hunting season. The rewrite of the dog training regs. is an attempt by ODFW at the request of Oregen sporting dog to make the laws more fair for all hunting dog trainers. Trainers not hunters. To have access to the woods April thru July is a good thing so lets not "F" it up by being unreasonable.

[houndhntr]

Mike,
I agree with what you are saying i think i just look at it different. We are not allowed to have our dogs in the woods at all april-july now so i dont see it as giving up anything i see it as gaining a little ground. you cant give up what you dont have. I started running dogs in 1991 so i had a few years before the ban and would love to be able to hunt bear and cougar again i just dont see ODFW proposing to allow it at this time not after having it rejected by voters twice. I have been a slacker in the past and havent attended the meetings and dont have a full idea of what the new rules would allow. I just love to hunt and run the woods so i have always done what the law said i could and kept my mouth shut. But as they say with age comes wisdom and a couple years ago i began to understand we need to stick together and speak up in order to be heard. i will be the first to tell ya i havent been doin my part to help but i figure better late than never so tryin to figure out how to do my part to help.

[mike martell]

EVIDENTLY YOU HAVEN'T READ THE POST OR ATTENDED A SINGLE MEETING THERE BIGFOOTEXP BECAUSE IF YOU HAD....lets not "f' it up being unreasonable?....maybe i'm the dullest knife in the lot....what is there to "f" up? you are 100% illegal for being any place other than a gravel road.the only exception will be if they offer up a cougar tag to 100% of any and all hound hunters to legally be in the woods during those four months. odfw is sworn to secrecy.....if this is the plan then why did anglin quote right out of the box in the first meeting....you will be illegal?...i know you didn't hear a word he spoke for a fact....i was the only hound hunter at the meeting....where do you get this is a good thing? look call me out....challenge this...bird hunters will be able to roam freely and you sir will GET A CITATION.... i listen to the words.... PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME SO I CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT IS CHANGING? BIRD NESTING GONE AND HARASSING WILDLIFE IN A CLOSE SEASON IN....

[bigfootexp]

Mr Martell I have been to the meeting in Clackamas and there is no regulation being discussed that would keep me from being anywhere in the woods with my dogs. I cannot harrass protected wildlife with them out of season but I can chase and kill unprotected wildlife. Well thats a HELL of alot more then we can do now!!!!!!!

[Daniel Tremblay]

Chase and kill unprotected wildlife....what does that consist of in oregon.... Coyotes, skunks and opposums?

[mike martell]

I DON'T ENGAGE IN THE HUNTING OF ANY OF THE ANIMALS MENTIONED .....SO BASED ON THIS RULE CHANGE WE WILL ALL BE ILLEGAL... TO BE AS ANGLIN PUT IT... OFF A GRAVEL ROAD....you answered you own question....you stated you can't harass any protected wildlife out of season....this qualifies as any fur bearing mammal... period! what this will force myself to do since i don't engage in running opposums, skunks, or coyotes is park the dogs for those four months.

YOU ARE A COYOTE HUNTER YOU ARE GOOD TO GO...I'M NOT...I LIE ABOUT BEING A COYOTE HUNTER AND JUST MY LUCK MY DOGS WILL SLIDE IN AND TREE RIGHT OFF A GRAVEL ROAD...BUSTED....THIS ALSO ENDS MY TRAVELING TO AND FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY. MAYBE THIS IS YOUR THOUGHTS OF PROSPERITY AND A WIN FOR ALL OF US? PERFECT IF YOU ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT THIS AS A VICTORY....E-MAIL ANGLIN AT ronald.e.anglin@state.or.us ask the man if this is going to be any other way other than what i have mentioned. GOOD FOR YOU TO BE WILLING TO ALLOW BIRD DOG TRAINERS THE THREE GAME BIRDS TO BE SHOT IN THE NAME OF TRAINING....AND YOU ARE A LEGITIMATE COYOTE HUNTER...I'M NOT SO HAVE FUN...

[Daniel Tremblay]

I'm with ya Mike, this shit is a JOKE!!!!

[muck]

the herrassing wildlife is a joke. if it were any other animal it would be different. but since a hound is chasing it. thats why its a ticket. Cause you all know the OSP would love to be doing it himself. but since he is a cop he just loves to ticket every hound hunter he can. he knows that he is hated by all hunters so he thinks well i show them. its just like that show on National geo graphic wild justice. the higher authority just loves to be able to have you by the balls. there should be no question, it should be equal right for bird doggers and hounds period

[mike martell]

the fundamental problem with both the odfw and osp stems from our doing. years past we had a pretty bad history of doing what the other side deems not acceptable....this happens to be in our past....not our present or our future. both these agencies can't get a grip on forgiveness....

here is where i'm stuck folks.....i have beaten this to death...you take our worst that odfw and osp loves to remind us of the wrong doing and compare this to what the same folks that are now calling the kettle black???

we are going to be held responsible for what we did some twenty plus years back...NOW HERE IS MY CASE....FOR THOSE OF YOU STILL IN THE DARK....ODFW HIRES USDA AND CONTRACTORS TO DO BLACK BEAR REMOVALS EACH SPRING....FROM 2005-2009 THE STAT SHEET REPORTS THE USDA HAS KILLED 744 TOTAL BEARS, 172 OF THOSE SOWS....5 BABY CUBS...179 SUB ADULTS...346 BOARS...42 UNKNOWNS...THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE DOCUMENTED....ODFW BIOLOGIST REPORT THERE ARE THOSE THAT DON'T GET COUNTED THAT WOULD BLOW THESE FIGURES WELL OVER THE 1000 MARK..OF THE 226 SUBS AND CUBS 100% HAD THERE BRAINS BLOWN OUT AND LEFT RIGHT WHERE THEY HIT THE GROUND....AND ODFW STILL HAS A FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WITH HOUND HUNTERS OF THE PAST??? THEY CAN'T GET OVER US AND THIS IS WHAT THEY ENGAGE IN DAILY???

F.Y.I....THE COUGAR PROGRAM IS NO DIFFERENT....ODFW HIRES COONTRACTORS AND USDA TO CONDUCT THESE REMOVALS AND AS CONFIRMED BY USDA'S HEAD DAVID WILLIAMS...ODFW MANDATES THE TREEING OF ANY AND ALL COUGARS THAT LEAVE A TRACK....ODFW MANDATES 100% OF ANY AND ALL COUGARS TREED OVER THE HIRED HOUNDS BE SHOT....FEMALES AND KITTENS ALIKE....THOSE LITTLE KITTENS ARE LEFT ON LOCATION...AND ODFW STILL HAS A PROBLEM WITH OUR ETHICS???ODFW THINKS THEY NEED TO REMOVE ABOUT 2000 TOTAL COUGAR ACROSS OREGON...UNTIL I STRUCK A NERVE THEY PLANNED ON CONTINUING WITH USDA AT A TOTAL COST OF WELL OVER 6 MILLION DOLLARS... i started to ride herd on this bullshit and have been quick to point out the facts....they don't like it one bit...they called me out on our distant past president and what he did.....well now i tell anglin this....the man has repaid his debt to society and if you throw this in my face...i throw your antics right back in yours....point the finger and i will break it off....

ODFW AND OSP ARE NOT WILLING TO EVER ALLOW ANY OREGON HOUND HUNTER A FAIR SHAKE....THEY CONDEMNED US IN THE PAST AND THIS IS AN EXTENSION OF THIS CONDEMNATION...PERSONALLY I THINK WE ARE ENTITLED TO A FRESH FAIR EQUAL TO THE BIRD HUNTERS START GIVEN THE TOTAL HISTORY OF THE STATE AND IF THIS DOESN'T WORK FOR THEM ON THERE END... WHY SHOULD WE ALLOW IT ON OURS?

doesn't matter what any of us think....i learned one thing by attending a state meeting...we hound hunters are split about 50/50 one says one thing and the other something else....you think this offer is perfectly acceptable and you support the slaughtering of our big game mammals vs. allowing us hound hunters a chance in fair and equitable form...just say the word....

[mike martell]

i should state for the record that on these documented bear removals usda is charging all those who use the service an hourly rate....i don't think killing the dependent cubs qualifies as game management....given the rate paid it is hard to dispute these facts as well. what i do dispute is the unwillingness of both usda or odfw to allow full disclosure into weather the bill paid actually covers all occured cost associated. i still maintain we the tax payer are stiffed with picking up administrative cost not to mention several other cost involved. who is paying for this pers program? this in it self confirms the hourly rate isn't close to covering the cost of doing business.

the cougar plan is funded by we the people. to date i have documented about 400 thousand dollars to remove a hand full of cougar. what i have so far is less than 200 total....we haven't even scratched the surface into what needs harvested....the dollar amount daniel posted under the lion section isn't included into the 400k figure above.odfw wants another 1800....that is 6 million dollars...do we turn this into a money maker and proper management tool for oregon or more of the same. kill em and rack em and stack em...all money poured into killing and nothing comimg back....

[Marshall]

Folks i am at a loss at how some of you dont see this for what it is and see it as a victory. It is a step in the right direction with bird nesting being gone but if you read the fine print you will see that nothing has changed besides you can road your dogs. I personally feel very sorry for those of you who are content with looking osp in the face and telling them you are a coyote hunter as i have never personally meet a guy that runs them but, here shortly everybody will be "coyote doggers". You see this is a HUGE SETUP FOR FAILURE! When they catch so and so out treeing "coyotes"(thats right i said coyotes) they will shove it in our face and tell us "we told you that you are all outlaws and this proves it!" Example: Say joe blow is out roading his hounds and all of a sudden they take off into the brush and a osp officer pulls up and can tell that the dogs are not moving and that they either have something bayed up or treed, officer richard cranium walks to the dogs and sees it is a bobcat and all of a sudden not only is joe blow a outlaw but houndsmen in general are all outlaws in his eyes and he reports this to ODFW. Folks i dont want to look over my shoulder ever and i believe we all want the same thing and now is the time to fight. We need to all stand up together and not give in to what they are offering us, IF YOU TRUST THEM THEN YOU BETTER BRING YOUR OWN LUBE BECAUSE WE WILL GET BENT OVER! I have some of the same stats that Mr. Martell has as well on this subject. I believe Daniel tremblay just made a post in the lion hunting section about a spendy lion study to tell us that cats eat elk and deer. This is why I work overtime so i can come home and see what i have let odfw do today with my hard earned money.....ENOUGH! Here is the bottom line, if you or i were to be doing what odfw is with the cats and bears then we would be in prison and be forced to pay huge restitution to the state of oregon.......... Well what gives them the free pass? Wheres is our restitution for this crap. Like i said, All i am asking for is EQUAL RIGHTS PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Maybe OUSDA can have a meeting with all of us houndsmen (sense they represent us)and we can all get together and collectively decide what the right thing to do is. Buddy, Don How does that sound?

Here is my final thought. If any one of us get caught running a bob or coon during these months then it will hurt us tremendously, so why not just ask for these months to be open to persuit? It can be done. Thank you

[Daniel Tremblay]

http://www.lagrandeobserver.com/Outdoor ... -behavior/

Just to insure everyone sees this I posted it under lion hunting but it goes with this as well so here ya go.

Big cat behavior
Written by Dick Mason, The Observer December 03, 2010 04:05 pm
A single cougar would have no trouble keeping the freezers of half a dozen households filled with fresh meat.

Adult cougars kill a deer or elk an average of about once every seven days. At least they do in the Mount Emily Unit of Union and Umatilla counties, according to the preliminary results of a government cougar ecology and management study. The Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife is conducting the study in cooperation with the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation, the Umatilla National Forest, the Wallowa-Whitman National Forest and many area land owners.

The predation study, which started 18 months ago, has involved about 30 cougars to which radio collars with GPS units were attached.

Preliminary results indicate cougars kill most frequently in June and July when they take an animal every 4.5 days. This is because many fawns and calves, born in May and June, are then available, said ODFW biologist Greg Davidson, a member of the study team.
Cougars make kills an average of only every two weeks in the winter. The rate is lower since cougars do not have to kill as frequently because:

• bears are sleeping, which means cougars are not competing with them for carcasses. Bears often eat cougar kills and sometimes even run big cats away from the deer and elk they have taken.

• meat does not spoil quickly in the winter. This means a cougar’s kills are preserved longer.

• fawns and calves, which are easy prey for cougars, are bigger than they were in the summer and fall. This means cougars have to kill fewer of them to get the nutrition they need, Davidson said.

Davidson and Darren Clark, an Oregon State University graduate student who is earning his Ph.D., spoke about the preliminary results of the cougar study Nov. 23 at a meeting of the Oregon Hunters Association in La Grande. Davidson and Clark are working under the direction of ODFW biologist Bruce Johnson, the study’s leader.

The researchers’ preliminary findings indicate, not surprisingly, that a high percentage of the elk and deer taken by cougars are fawns and calves. Seventy-nine percent of the elk the cougars killed have been calves and 49 percent of the deer have been fawns.

At least 90 percent of the animals the cougars are killing are deer and elk, Johnson said. Cougars overall are taking two deer for every elk they kill.

The majority of the adult deer and elk taken by cougars are does and cows. Adult bucks are killed much more frequently than adult bulls. Biologists have found only two instances in which a cougar took a branch-antlered bull elk, Davidson said.

Movement patterns revealed by tracking collars indicate that adult female cougars in the Mount Emily Unit have a territory of about 60 square miles and that adult males have a range about three times this. Additional information needs to be obtained before a more precise figure on the range of adult males can be obtained, Johnson said.

Biologists are currently monitoring 15 radio-collared cougars, but a total of 30 cougars have been collared over the course of the study. Seven cougars that were collared have died since the study started. Three were taken by hunters, two by state wildlife services damage control staff members, one by a vehicle collision and one died for unknown reasons.

Davidson said the most surprising thing abut the study to date has been how similar the preliminary results are to a cougar predation study conducted in Alberta, Canada, five to 10 years ago.

All of the cougars that have been collared in the Mount Emily Unit study were first treed by hounds run by Ted Craddock of La Grande. Tranquilizer darts were then fired by biologists at the mountain lions. They then fell from trees into nets or were lowered with the aid of ropes to the ground, where collars were attached.

Davidson said Craddock’s assistance has been instrumental to the study.

“He is fantastic,’’ Davidson said. “He is probably the best hounds man in Oregon.’’

Craddock also spoke at the OHA meeting. The hounds man said he has been tracking cougars and bears since 1954. Craddock has treed 1,524 cougars and bobcats and 2,465 bears since then.

Hunters in Oregon have not been allowed to use dogs to track cougars since late 1994 when voters passed a ballot measure banning this. Craddock was asked at the OHA meeting how he trains his dogs since they cannot be used to hunt cougars and bears in Oregon.

Craddock said he keeps his dogs in tracking mode via the many cougar projects he has assisted the ODFW over the years and by making an annual trip to California to hunt bears with his hounds. Hunting bears in California with dogs is legal. Cougar hunting in the state, however, has been illegal for two decades.

The Mount Emily Unit cougars Craddock treed for the ODFW are monitored by biologists who receive their radio collar signals during flights over the unit. The signals the biologists receive provide them with information on where the big cats have traveled in recent weeks.

Biologists then visit the sites the cougars have been at to determine what they have killed.

The study’s researchers will soon not have to make flights to determine cougar locations. Davidson explained that new collars that will send location information to a satellite will be attached to cougars. Biologists will receive the new location information via the satellite in the form of e-mails.

The Mount Emily Unit cougar study, which costs $180,000 a year, is expected to last about another 1.5 years.

[007pennpal]

A hound can't be expected to stay on a gravel road. That's retarded. I think the only thing that should be regulated is trigger pulling. We are the only hunters that can catch and release. And we should be treated as heros. The pupblic needs hard working houndsmen to be safe. That is a fact. We also protect sheep, cattle, game and timber. Why all the BS? Gall bladders? Bird nesting? Spotted owl? What's the difference? Politic, money and control. Stupid laws get stupid answers. I'm gonna hunt coyotes. You guys just tell me who to shoot to get things changed.
Sean

[007pennpal]

I got a good question. "What's wrong with harrassing the wildlife?" Isn't it harmless like skiing a mountain or climbing a tree? New rule, There will be no fun allowed!
Sean

[Daniel Tremblay]

007pennpal - I can almost relate to you in the matter of whats wrong with harrassing the wildlife. Even though I am not condoning or encouraging the act of chasing deer and elk with dogs or any other species but perhaps if those actions were to happen a little more, maybe we wouldnt have such a problem with domestication of wildlife. I.E. game coming into town, also being on the roads and such. I dont know the figures of the top of my head but im sure that in oregon alone there are more than enough of animal related car crashes. The Fact is the liberal hippies like to do this shit and see wildlife in town, that way they dont have to get off they're lazy asses and go into the woods! Really...think about it. There has been several occasions where lions have came into the cities, even in the metro areas. And yet...what a surprise. NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.

I'll tell you whats going to happen, as sad and horrible as it is. Those liberals will keep on lyin and do they're bullshit and we'll keep on losing our battles but the real kicker is. The ones that are truely in danage and are truely going to lose the battle are the game animals of oregon. People are not dependant the game like in the old days but today the game are dependant on humans. We are they're only hope of surviving, yet its the liberal humans that will shoot them selfs in the foot and ruin it for the animals by "protecting" them.