lion gun

[dwalton]

It takes a long time for a lion to bleed out shot with a 22 long rifle. A 22 magnum with hollow points will kill a lion in the heart or lungs but they will usually jump out and run 40 to 100 yards. You had better have your dogs tied back or it is a good way to get a dog hurt. Use enough gun, if it is a pistol be sure you can hit with it. Most tight spot that I have seen with wounded cats and dogs have been to small of a gun or a pistol. It's your dogs you choose. Dewey

[007pennpal]

This has been a fun one to read. Thanks for the stories guys. Put it in the right place that's the most important part of a kill shot. We are talking about lions. 22s are real accurate and easy to shoot. I killed an elk with a 22. Can't believe all the possitivity around the 30/30. Yes, it will kill a lion if you hit it. I think it is an inaccurate piece of crap. Easy to handle in a saddle I guess. It was my first big riffle. Its the one I want you to have if we have a shoot out. I carried that Model 94 gun cowboying in MT. You can keep it. Also, I don't like shotguns with slugs. Feel sorry for the Eastern hunters bouncing them off deer.


Lewis and Clark used big bore repeating air riffles. And they worked for shooting indians too. No kidding check the history books or google it.

Mike,
Why didn't you just stab that lion with your knife? Spear would have been what you needed. I'll hold the video camera, ha ha. Anyway, great story thanks for sharing it.

I'm voting for a compact black gun that can be compressed into a backpack. Full metal jackets do kill just fine but you can get hunting rounds. Small, light and easy to shoot accuratly.

Sean

[ferjr]

This has been a fun one to read. Thanks for the stories guys. Put it in the right place that's the most important part of a kill shot. We are talking about lions. 22s are real accurate and easy to shoot. I killed an elk with a 22. Can't believe all the possitivity around the 30/30. Yes, it will kill a lion if you hit it. I think it is an inaccurate piece of crap. Easy to handle in a saddle I guess. It was my first big riffle. Its the one I want you to have if we have a shoot out. I carried that Model 94 gun cowboying in MT. You can keep it. Also, I don't like shotguns with slugs. Feel sorry for the Eastern hunters bouncing them off deer.


Lewis and Clark used big bore repeating air riffles. And they worked for shooting indians too. No kidding check the history books or google it.

Mike,
Why didn't you just stab that lion with your knife? Spear would have been what you needed. I'll hold the video camera, ha ha. Anyway, great story thanks for sharing it.

I'm voting for a compact black gun that can be compressed into a backpack. Full metal jackets do kill just fine but you can get hunting rounds. Small, light and easy to shoot accuratly.

Sean

+1

[M Evertsen]

007 - I am not sure why you had problems with your .30-30. Saying that it is inaccurate is a fallacy. Its the load, gun, or shooter, not the cartridge that is inaccurate. I have handloads for my .30-30 that will shoot sub 1" groups at 25 yards all day long. I have not shot any further than that with it, as I figure thats as far as I need to hit with it anyway.

Slugs bouncing off deer - now thats funny!

Later,

Marcial

[Mike Leonard]

Mt. Evertsen.

I agree totally with you on the 30-30! The load and the gun is critical but the 30-30 will if tunes shoot with hust about any cartridge out there. I had a Model 788 Remington bolt action in 30-30. With good handloads it would stay in 1/2 to 3/4" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. It was mild and a pleasure to shoot and very effective. I have killed 5 elk with my model 94 saddle rifle in 30-30 all with 150 Gr. Remington core Loct factory ammo. The bullets dang sure didn't bounce off and they were very dead elk when the bullet was placed in the vitals. I do not stretch the cartridge but it is perfeclty adequate for deer sized game to 250 yard maybe a tad further with the new LeverRevolution ammo and if you can shoo any elk within 150 is in deep doo doo. Keep in with in it 's boundries and it won't let you down, just don't try to make a 30-06 out of it becasue it doesn't have the powder capacity.

for lion and black bear it is a super gun and killed more of both species I am sure than any other centerfire rifle catridge. The Model 94 action designed and refines by John Browning seems loose and sloppy to many. There was a reason for this it had plenty of tightness in the tolerance where it counted but it was made to operate in the toughest conditions even when dirty or icey. they have that reputation of durability and reliability that made them one of the most famous of all rifles. I recall the famous Guncwriter Jack OConner telling of an acient model 94 30-30 he saw at a ranch in old Mexico. He said the gun most likely had never been cleaned, the blueing was work off and the action was filthy and the barrel was pitted. but none the less he said the family seemed to always have a plentiful supply of venison tomales and chile on hand.

[007pennpal]

Marcial, you are right about the shooter. I've had lots of problems with that guy. He's made way more mistakes than all my guns together. I think the 30/30 is good withing the 25 yard range. But, if you only shoot 25 yards, why not just carry a pistol? Shoot man, we have trees taller than twenty-five yards here.

Yes, a shotgun slug will skip off of a deer usually ripping a piece of hide if it hits at a hard angle, whereas, a riffle bullet will penetate. I'm speaking from experience with the big round nosed slugs. The new saber type might be better.

Sean

[George Streepy]

I have never been a big fan of the 30-30. A few years ago I bought one in a multiple gun deal and decided to shoot it a little and see what I thought of it. I hadn't shot one in over twenty years, in fact the last time I picked one up was to shoot for my hunters safety course when I was 9 years old.

I have to say I have enjoyed shooting it. It is far more accurate than I expected. I have seen a few lions shot with it and they came out dead or very close to it. As others have mentioned it doesn't take much to kill a lion but if I had my way they would hit the ground dead. It is just easier that way. And there was no extra damage to the hides.

Not to ruffle any feathers of the handgun enthusiasts on here but I know it is more accurate than most pistols. I have some buddies that are competition pistol shooters, and I am fairly confident I can shoot tighter groups with a decent 30-30 than they can with their high dollar pistols. Accuracy of the 30-30 isn't really the issue, it is carrying it compare the the ease of a handgun. But I think the bottom line is that any legal cartridge will do the job, just use what is comfortable for you.

[Catch]

Mt. Evertsen.

I agree totally with you on the 30-30! The load and the gun is critical but the 30-30 will if tunes shoot with hust about any cartridge out there. I had a Model 788 Remington bolt action in 30-30. With good handloads it would stay in 1/2 to 3/4" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. It was mild and a pleasure to shoot and very effective. I have killed 5 elk with my model 94 saddle rifle in 30-30 all with 150 Gr. Remington core Loct factory ammo. The bullets dang sure didn't bounce off and they were very dead elk when the bullet was placed in the vitals. I do not stretch the cartridge but it is perfeclty adequate for deer sized game to 250 yard maybe a tad further with the new LeverRevolution ammo and if you can shoo any elk within 150 is in deep doo doo. Keep in with in it 's boundries and it won't let you down, just don't try to make a 30-06 out of it becasue it doesn't have the powder capacity.

for lion and black bear it is a super gun and killed more of both species I am sure than any other centerfire rifle catridge. The Model 94 action designed and refines by John Browning seems loose and sloppy to many. There was a reason for this it had plenty of tightness in the tolerance where it counted but it was made to operate in the toughest conditions even when dirty or icey. they have that reputation of durability and reliability that made them one of the most famous of all rifles. I recall the famous Guncwriter Jack OConner telling of an acient model 94 30-30 he saw at a ranch in old Mexico. He said the gun most likely had never been cleaned, the blueing was work off and the action was filthy and the barrel was pitted. but none the less he said the family seemed to always have a plentiful supply of venison tomales and chile on hand.

Do you drink a lot??

[cmogi10]

Funny how many different opinions there are,
I personally love my rifle in 30-30, for me it does everything I need it to do.
Don't have any problems with accuracy,

Although I've never shot a lion with it, so what do I really know,

[007pennpal]

Ha ha ha. This is like asking what type of hound is best. Let's just agree not to use a 25 pistol ok?
Sean

[Mike Leonard]

Catch,

I don't drink anymore, of course I don't drink any less either. LOL!

I do however hunt a great deal and shoot a ton and have five decades of firearms experience and hunting under my belt, and am also known to be quite well read. As they said opionions on guns are just like anything else and everybody has a different one however facts are still facts, and if anybody thinks the 30WCF is not effective on the species mentioned has neither the experience or the facts.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _76558926/

[Josh Kunde]

I have a 32 Winchester special simply because that's what grandpa gave me. It are almost identical to a 30-30 or winchester center fire as mike refered to it (same brass slightly larger bullet.) I shoot 170 gr federal ammo out of it simply because that's the most common round I can find on the shelf in the gun shops around her. It handles deer just fine anywhere from 20 yards to 200 without excessive damage and whenever I do decide to kill a cat that's what I plan on shooting it with. The only difference in velocity I have seen with these comparred to the average 30 30 ammo is 100 fps faster for the 32. But I just saw that hornady is making their leverevolutions in 32 now, and if they perform as well the the 4570 do with that same ammo I'm sure they will handle anything just fine. And because they are so close I will lump the 30 30 into the same conclusion.

Josh

[Mike Leonard]

Right on Josh with the 32 Special it's a good one. It gains slightly more velocity with the same case and vbullet weight becasue of it's slightly larger bullet diamenter. This allows for more surface area for the gas pressure to push against. Same theory as to why a 150 gr. bullet exits the barrel of a 30-06 (.308 diameter) than a similar 150 gr bullet out of a 280 ( .284diameter) from a nealry identical case. this does not mean they will range any further usually the smaller diamenter bullet of the same weight and style will hold range better becasue of it's length or ballistic coefficient.


One of the largest whitetail buck I have ever seen was harvested by a feiend of mine with a 32 Winchester Special. We jumped the buck out of a bed on a heavily timbered ridge. We just caught flashes of the giant rack and his tail going thru the trees, I thought all was lost and I couldn't find him in the scope of my 06. He broke slightly from the trees just as he crested the ridge some 200 yards away bang goes the old 32 spcial and he drops his tail but goes over the ridge. We scrambled up there a bit depressed that he was gone. When we got up there we hit his tracks in the skiff snow and where he topped the ridge. as he crested over the tracks sdplayed out skidding and slashing into the earth and to our amazement we began to see blood and not just a little a lot. We quickly followed the tracks down the other side and found the huge old buck piled up some 50 yards below deader than a hammer. The old 32 Special 170 Gr. bullet had taken him with a true Texas heart shot from the exit door ranging all the way up thru his boiler room and into the vitals killing him quickly. My friend was elated and this deer had 17 scoreable points, but said it had to be that deer's unlucky days becasue he just threw it up there and pulled the trigger when he saw him. LOL!

[007pennpal]

Just about anything will kill a lion. Kilt is kilt, ha ha. Truth told, I shootem with a camera mostly.

Mike,
Those Texas heart shots are messy to gut out.
Sean

[Peter Meyer]

At least you guys get to argue about a lion gun.